BONUS EPISODE: Tea Time with Stella and Roberta!

Your cherished hosts, Stella and Roberta, transition us from workplace horror stories to a season of thanks with a conversational episode.  

Cussing? Yes.  Philosophy? Yes.  Current events? Yes. Yes. Yes. 

Enjoy this bonus episode and want more like this one? Let us know!

Transcript

0:01

Welcome to a special episode of The Toxic Tea Room. This is tea time with Stella and Roberta. I got to tell you, I don't know what character you were trying to be when you read that disclaimer on that episode, but, um, it's a moment. It's a vibe. Do you want to tell me what that was about? Yes, actually, I do. Thank you. Because I was confused. I'm an extremely fake person voice. That's what that is. Okay. Uh, no, uh, wonder I never heard it before. You're not fake at all. Yeah, it's kind of hard for me and as you know, had to record that twice because you were struggling. Part you were. But seriously, in light of it being November, and I know we're going to chat about, uh, several things today along the themes of being very thankful because you can't fake being thankful. Um, there's this notion of authenticity in your gratitude because deep down, you're either very thankful or you're not. Right? And so being fake I'm trying to pull this all together, I guess, is, um, being fake sometimes presents itself in the form of being nice and, um, being it's just, um I don't know that type of thing. I can't hear that voice anymore. I can't. And I just think that people it comes across right when you're being fake. Most people have some amount of discernment, uh, to understand whether someone's just being nice or sugar coating or pretending that they're ignorant. Sometimes they are ignorant, but sometimes people pretend to be ignorant, um, just so that no one holds them accountable to the things that they should know. So, yeah, I was doing my best to, um, present a fake. Nice reading of the disclaimer. That was, um, definitely again, it was a vibe. Um, and thank you for that. I get what you're saying on fake people. I've certainly met my fair share. I know you've met your fair share. For me, authenticity is an interesting viewpoint because everyone thinks they're being authentic. But if we're going to be honest with ourselves, we're not the same version of ourselves in every environment. We're different versions of ourselves depending upon where we are at the moment, who we're with at the moment, what we're trying to get done at the moment. Um, so let's use an easy example. On this podcast, we always mark the episodes as explicit because there's a lot of swearing. Now, we don't swear just for the sake of shock value. This is not the Howard Stern show. Don't sue me. Um, don't sue us, Howard Stern. We're just saying that's not your show. But there are times where it comes up. It's either directly in a user submission, or it's what we react to organically when we hear something. Um, and while could an effort be made to where we make this completely G rated? I don't know. Um, I'll be Candid. I don't know that it's appropriate to talk about such painful topics. Things that are keeping people awake at night, things that make them hate going into work, but they have to work to feed themselves and their families. Things that people suffer through. And the psychological trauma, the health impacts, and all of the things we discuss on this podcast. We try to make it light hearted, because if people don't laugh, they cry. And we've all lived everything we're talking about, we've lived those experiences ourselves directly. So we're bringing that level of authenticity to it. But I don't know that it would have the same impact. Candidly if we sugarcoat it and say, like, that guy's a boss hole. Yeah, we say boss hole because that was fun. That was a nice way. Because saying asshole is what everybody thinks. So we made it boss hole. But in some areas where the F bomb gets dropped, it's because the F bomb is what organically. Comes out of our mouths when we hear some of this stuff. Like, are you fucking kidding me? That actually happens. And if I were to say, what the fairy dust that makes light of it? It just does. If I were to not say bitch and I say, oh, that's a real witch, okay? Those are, by the way, two separate descriptors. They're not replacements for each other. But if I were to say, um, what a B word? I mean, come on. Look, we're not or she's not very nice. She's not very nice at all. Okay? If you're conniving, you're conniving. And we'll use the word conniving. But if we're trying to use an appropriate adjective and that happens to be blue at the moment it is, does that mean I go to church and I use the same language? Of course not. Does it mean that I am working with a client and I drop an F bomb just cuz? Of course not. This is an area of our lives where we're being authentic as to the direct experiences that we've had, the horrific nature of what still occurs, the psychological abuse that happens in the 21st century at some of the biggest companies, at, uh, some of the smallest companies across all industries. And no, that doesn't deserve sanitation of the language, I'm sorry. And not in my view. If you want to, as a listener, clutch your pearls and say they're, uh, just being crass. Yeah, this is a crass topic. I wish I didn't have a podcast that talked about toxic work environments, because I wish we didn't have toxic work environments. I wish we didn't have abusive bosses that screamed, literally scream at their people and try to reduce them into a pile of trash that gets swept off the floor. I wish those things didn't exist, but they do. So for me to say, oh, pumpernickel, there he goes again. He's like a little desk pot in a teapot. Look at him go. That doesn't have the same impact to mean you see how you're laughing. It's like because it sounds like we're making fun of the topic. If we were to sanitize it, it is a raw topic. We are authentic with it. It doesn't mean we're not professional. We're actually quite professional. We have clients that love the work that we do, and they know we have this podcast, and they don't care. In fact, many of them are very supportive of this podcast because they know our hearts are driven to get the right results, whether it's for their business, whether it's for these issues. We're passionate people. And passionate people don't often sanitize themselves for general consumption. And I don't it is what it is. I agree. I have some comments on this in general, from a philosophical perspective. Number one is, um, society kind of breeds this notion of being nice and professional or having proper etiquette, partially because there is judgment. So as soon as someone, in some cases, acts authentically in the heat of the moment, um, people judge. They're quick to judge. And that kind of breeds more fakeness. Because whatever judgment comes across, especially from leadership, if someone on the floor or at a warehouse or, uh, someone a, uh, coordinator on a desk has this moment where, oh, my gosh, that's so jacked up. And leadership shuns. Them. Or then others will view that and say, oh, I cannot act the way I simply feel now. It works both ways, I'm sure, because we have all been around. That person that doesn't have a filter says the wrong thing at the wrong time, and very much so. It should not happen that way. But there's a time and a place for everything. Agreed. Um, and one of the things that while you were speaking, I've heard a lot of people say they can't wait till they get older. Because then when you're older, you don't care as much of, uh, what other people think, but it shouldn't take the age. But we all know the older grandpa who just lets it rip, what he thinks. Now, what he thinks might be closed minded or it might be five generations ago type of mentality. Uh, but you have to commend the person for being able to just say what they think. Because if they can't just say what they think the way they want to say it, and as long as they're not threatening to kill somebody, right? Yeah. I mean, that's more than just grandpa being grandpa. Grandpa is a threat to himself and others at that point. But it is refreshing. It is refreshing for the human condition to be authentic. The way it goes sideways is when you don't recognize time and place. Because with everything, there is a balance. And as far as it relates and pertains to the Toxic Tea Room, where we're talking about very toxic things, I will be honest, there's been a lot of things that I have said on this podcast that normally I would not say, but the topic necessitates people to be very authentic about what they think and feel towards these situations. The people trying to shut them down, people who are willing to talk about, hey, this is wrong. We should not be psychologically abusing people and acting like kindergartners and fighting over. I feel scared and frightened of my position, so I'm going to make you look like you don't know what you're talking about. These type of things, uh, I call it kinder care, but anyway kinder care. That's so awesome. There's a lot of that, by the way. There is a lot. Yeah, there is so much. I totally agree with you. And I will say that, um, going back to your grandpa analogy, don't wait to be elderly to tell people what's on your mind. But the clear line for me is there's a difference in being authentic. And yeah, you may have to turn your filter down if you don't like cuss words. Sometimes we're going to cuss. We always put a little warning out to say, this has explicit content. It's not like we surprise you with it. We do all the right things because we don't want somebody that genuinely does not want to hear that sort of language. We don't want to accidentally fill their ear with it. So we do take our precautions. But the flip side of that is we're not cursing to hurt somebody. We're not saying we don't look at somebody and use those words to bring them down, to tear them apart. But I have heard those words used in that context from the same people that condemned the existence of this podcast. I have heard, uh, people use these exact words. Now, I will tell you, there's a big difference between saying that's fucked up and you're fucked up. They're two different things, very different. They're both the words fucked and the word up. But the way we're using it, we're describing the situation, is that's fucked up. We're not saying a person is fucked up. We're not trying to drag anyone down with the language. And again, we're simply using what is applicable. If we're talking about something that doesn't evoke that kind of emotion, because we have had episodes that don't evoke this emotion, we don't use that language. It's a natural response to what we're reading. Sometimes it's literal. Look, when we're reading something, we don't edit for those sorts of things. I'm just going to be honest to the listeners. We don't edit. You send a submission. And if your submission says, on the fucking first day of the fucking month, especially if it's a fucking Friday, that's exactly how we read it. I don't say on the first month, especially if it's a Friday, we're not going to do that. Because if I start editing what you send in, you can't trust that I'm being authentic with what I'm reading. So we don't do that. We are using the language because it's what's real in the moment. It's what was real when somebody wrote in. It's a genuine response sometimes in what we read. And again, I think if I sanitize it if you sanitize and say, oh, you know what, sugar? Um, daddies I'm not trying to say sugar daddies, as in the people that will spend lavishly on a partner. I mean, sugar daddies, because I don't want to say shit. So oh, sugar daddies. No, just say shit. Okay. I mean, it almost trivializes things to kind of mask the authenticity that way, so I totally agree. So if we could transition I mean, some of the things happening in the world today is what supports, uh, kind of my view. Uh, the world is in complete chaos right now. It's escalating, and it's getting worse, and it bothers me. I had hoped and I know we record our episodes in advance, and I had hoped that by the time Halloween came around, there might have been some sort of, at least, interim resolution to the conflict going on right now in Gaza and Israel. And as of this recording, no, it hasn't. In fact, it's escalated. And the images coming, uh, out of Gaza are horrible. The images that came out of Israel after the initial attack on October 7 are horrible. And you and I have had discussions about the entire situation and not only the impacts on the people involved, but the geopolitical influence, as everybody's kind of drawing lines in the sand right. And trying to figure out what side they're going to be on and what side of history is the right side. And between the demonstrations and know, if you say anything against Israel's actions, you're labeled anti Semitic. If you say anything in defense of the people of Palestine, well, now you're pro Hamas. And all of these labels that are just slapped on people, when, at the end of the day, there are innocent people dying on both sides, and there will be more innocent people that die if this doesn't just knock it the fuck off already. But it was an image, um, that I saw. It was, uh, a short video. I don't know if you saw this one, Stella, or maybe some of our listeners have. That kind of changed my outlook on a lot of things. And this is not a political statement, by the way, people. Roberta, uh, what side are you on in the conflict? The side that stops killing people, whatever side that is. I'm on that side. Let's be clear. I'm not here to pick a side. There's a lot of history. There's a lot of sentiments on both sides. I just want it to stop. I just want it to stop that's the side I'm on is for all of this to stop. I don't want anybody else dying. Um, I don't want to see any more babies dying. I don't like thinking about the babies in NICU. Right. The neonatal intensive care units that required those machines to breathe for them. And when the fuel ran out of the generators, it became a graveyard. I don't like thinking about that. I don't want to think about that continuing. I'm on the side of whatever the fuck makes this stop. That's the side I'm on. But I saw a weeping Palestinian mother who was using bits of fabric. I don't know if they were scarves or handkerchiefs or what they were. And she was mopping up the blood that was in front of her on the street. And she's sitting on top of rubble, mopping up the blood. And she kept saying that that was Muhammad's blood. Now. She doesn't mean Muhammad the Prophet. She means her child, who is named Muhammad. And when I saw that, Stella I can't really explain because I have personally cried over this conflict because it's so horrible. I have been angry over this conflict at both sides at one point or another because it's so horrific. I have been crushed by some of the images I've seen. Uh, the mass graves, the children. Oh, my God. The children. The most innocent of the innocent, right? But that one scene sucked literally everything out of me. Uh, it's hard to even explain because I didn't have any emotion. And not because I was apathetic, but because it was almost like a black hole. That scene was so powerful that it sucked everything out of me into it. Does that make sense? It had the power of its own mega vacuum and the utter desperation to save what little was left by soaking up the blood that had been spilled so that she could retain something, even though everybody in Gaza is basically waiting for, when is it my turn next? Because they're like sitting ducks, right? And it was just that utter desperation. And I watched that and not a tear shed from my eye, because I couldn't I had no emotions left. She took them all. Like this poor woman who has no idea that I exist, who is mopping up the blood of her loved one from the ground onto these tiny scraps of fabric. I, at that moment, said I'll never complain again. Like, I don't give a shit. What do I have to complain about? My kids are all alive. My grandkids are all alive. I have lights on in my home. I turn on the faucet. I get water. I have food in my refrigerator. Am I really going to let myself complain because traffic backs up? Am I going to let myself complain because somebody was an asshole? I can't bring myself to do it. And I just decided I'm just not going to. Now, that doesn't mean I'm not going to talk about the issues, because we are talking about the issues. We're going to discuss the things that shouldn't be interpreted as complaining when we're talking about the things that we're here to talk about. That's not what it is. But from a personal level, like, the stuff like, oh, my God, people put dishes in the sink versus putting them in the dishwasher would piss me off. And I used to complain about it. Seriously, the dishwasher is, like, literally right next to the sink. Just put it in the damn dishwasher. No, you know what I did? I got the dishes out of sink and I put them in the dishwasher. What do I give a shit? It's not worth complaining. It doesn't make me a doormat. I'm the furthest thing from a doormat. But it broke me in such a way that I could not validate having any gripe that was worth verbalizing after I saw this woman mopping up her child's blood from the street. I don't have it in me to complain about shit at that point. I just don't. And so for November, when Thanksgiving is coming, am I grateful? Yes, I'm grateful. Do I pray for an, um, end for this conflict as soon as possible? Yes. Because I fear it's. Escalating. And I fear we're going to get drugged into a war. And I don't want a war. I don't want a war. And I don't want any more loss of life when it's so needless. It's so needless. And the innocents are paying the price right now. And I wish I wasn't even having this conversation. But in this month where gratitude is something that we're supposed to be, it's literally called the holiday is Thanksgiving, folks. It's not Turkey day. Don't call it Turkey Day. It's, uh, Thanksgiving. Okay. It means we give thanks. We give thanks for being here. We give thanks for what we have. And there are times it can seem so hard to give thanks. But in my view, and I'm only speaking for myself until I am mopping up my loved one's blood off the street, I have every reason to be thankful for whatever the hell I've got going on. Even, uh, if it's a problem, I should be thankful because it's not that problem. Does that make sense? Yeah, it totally does. I mean, perspective is important. As we tie it back to those enduring a psychological, uh, warfare at their job. It's important to be thankful for even the situation. Although it's not okay to not do anything about it. Amen. So instead of complaining, it's recognizing and, uh, valuing what you need more. Sometimes it is the paycheck, but sometimes it isn't. So absolutely, we don't condone. Like, you really have to use your own discernment in your individual situation. Um, but, yeah, that story is horrific. I mean, I cannot imagine it. Um, I shudder thinking of living in a place where at any moment there could be an explosion. That is ultimate terror. That's where terrorism comes from, is you're in sheer terror of walking down the street or wherever you are, um, because you might blow up. Or worse yet, someone from your family might blow up. And especially as it pertains to children. I mean, my God, we have so much to be thankful for. Um, but being thankful does not mean you don't recognize and call out. I'll say it evil for evil. Like, if things are bad, they're bad. You don't justify it. You don't say, well, at least this isn't happening. Bad is bad, and it's okay to recognize it, to call it out, and to take action. But I will say that taking action should be from a very calm, calculated place internally, because when you're emotionally reacting in some junctures, it goes back to sometimes you say something and then you regret saying it. Whenever that happens, it's because you didn't take the time to fully understand the feeling. And, uh, believe me, when I get, like, I'm a very calm, nice I'll say nice, but I'm a very kind, loving person, but I am emotional. And when my emotions get the better of me, typically, I can't even speak. It just comes out. You've got, like, a built in filter there. So no, too emotional. Turn off speak mode. Turn off speak mode. But I will tell you, and for all of those who know me, have known me in the past, I am using a lot of self control. People may have misinterpreted me by someone who's too afraid to say something or, like, shy, but that's all self control people because I have a lot of thoughts, and they are not nice, which. Again, and, uh, they're none of your business people, because what she thinks about you is none of your business. What she thinks about me is none of my business. And, ah, we're partners. She can think whatever she wants to think. If she wants to be a total meanie in her thoughts, that is up to her. That is her choice. Right, Stella? Yes, it is. You do exhibit incredible self control. I've often told you, I'm like Stella. You give people way too much grace, but you're a better person than me for it. I mean, you are definitely an incredibly kind, loving human being, but don't mistake that gentle listeners for somebody that you can just take advantage of, because that's a. I've learned many lessons. Um, she blames her DNA. Like, Stella will go in there and mean. Like, everyone can tell. She gets a look in her eye. Like, I know she's pissed, and I'm just waiting for it. I'm not frequently, the just our relationship is so good. She'll just tell me, like, hey, so the other day when you said that and often she doesn't even have to say that because I'll catch myself and say, hey, you know what? I really didn't have a right to say that, and I'm sorry. Which a lot of people might be surprised to hear me say that, but I am a conscientious person. I don't walk around life trying to crush people. So if I say something I'm like, she probably is bothered by that. I'll give Stella a call saying, you know what? I didn't have a right to try to tell you what to do. That's not for me to do. I'm sorry. I didn't mean it to come across that way. You're doing amazing. Um, and so we do a good job of building each other up because that's what you want in a partner. And we're also friends, and so we have a very healthy relationship and we have very good conversations. But I've seen her in meetings where I know she's about to unleash. Hell, it takes a long time. Like, she's a slow burn. Like the spark gets there. It has to warm up a little bit. You see it start to get and then you're like, oh, now I see the first licks of okay, okay, this is about to be a holy shit. Okay, okay, this is going to go down. And then here's what she does that I find fascinating. Stella will put aside her normal nature of being measured and calm and loving and allow this side to take over because she can't hold it back anymore. And she's like, okay, so my Spanish is coming into play. And it's like, uh she blames her. Like, no, this is I get to be spicy now. No, you can be spicy whenever the hell you want. It has nothing to do with your DNA and everything to do with that particular moment. But I find it hilarious. She's like, uh, uh, my Spanish is coming out. It's always there. What do you mean it's coming out? Do you put it away? Like, do you put it aside when you're not using use? I don't need my Spanish right now, so let me just put it away. So I'd like to have a moment because, Roberta, you always surprise me by sharing something like a story from your personal life sure. That in some instances have been extremely personal. Yes. So I did have this moment, um, recently where I was speaking about my personal view between intelligence and intellect and emotions. And I know we in the past have talked about emotional IQ and all those things. But one thing that I recently learned, and it's so amazing that even through your forty s and fifty s and sixty s, you're still learning about yourself in some cases. I think this is so prevalent in Gen X people because we did have to fend for ourselves in a lot of ways. We didn't have parents saying, hey, you're going to feel this sometimes. No, you had people saying, rub dirt in it when it hurts. Right. But, um, one of the things that I realized is when I was very young, my father to me, represented intellect and, um, using logic over emotion. And my mother, conversely, was a spicy Latina woman who was extremely emotional. Not to say she didn't also use intellect, but emotions came out more. And so one thing I learned is I felt safe with the logical father figure who always had a lot to say and all this intellect, and he knew so many things. Whereas the emotional aspect I did not feel safe with because I didn't know if it was going to be good or bad. It was a situation that I learned, and kids think in black and white, where I tend to not like my emotions, even though I am a very emotional person. Um, and I know I kid about it being from being Spanish and Italian. Because that's a double decker of emotional people stereotypes. You're just like, okay, I'm already, um, Hispanic, but let's just throw in just enough Italian in there to just make sure that it's over the top at all costs. Let's go. Exactly. Um. I have always been very antagonistic towards my own emotions, which may sound crazy to some of the listeners, but this is a thing people don't know what to do with their emotions sometimes. Like, they don't want to cry in front of other people. And some people attribute that to being vulnerable. I wasn't really worried about being vulnerable. I just didn't want to show emotion in general. But when we talk about microaggressions and, um, having emotional intelligence, it's being able to recognize your emotions and not be overcome by them, but instead, just allow yourself to feel them. Um, recognize that they're there, investigate why they're there, and then allow it. Like, allow the feeling and it will pass. If you fight against the feeling, you create this internal struggle with yourself. How does this all pertain to the workplace? Well, you have a bunch of people that don't know how to balance between intellect and emotion and the work environment that in some fields are very strongly dominated by men. Men were taught not to show emotion. And I'm not saying anything against men versus women, because on the flip side, women have a stereotype of typically being too emotional and not bringing logic to the equation. But both of them are very prevalent in every human. And it's a matter of finding that harmony between the two, if that makes sense. Uh, it makes total sense. And one of the things that we've certainly learned on this journey with this podcast is how many issues exist that if, again, from an intellectual perspective, nobody wants to talk about emotions at work, they're seen as irrelevant to work, which doesn't make sense because you're a human being working. Unless you've been fully replaced by AI, you're still a human being. And human beings come with all of that. They come with the emotions, they come with the baggage, they come with everything that's happened to them in their past that's unresolved. They come with everything going on in their present that they always have to be thinking of their family, their school, whatever the situation may be. And they're still working on the future of your. Organization with you. So, of course emotions are there. And then when you layer in people that are, frankly, petty and mean and people that are genuine, and sometimes those two don't mix well. I mean, it's just true. Like, if somebody's intent on being petty, they hate you for being genuine. They wish they could be, is my theory. Like, they wish they could be open and genuine, but something happened to them in their past, is my theory. Um, and because of that, they can't be. So I now have to be petty with you. I am going to pick you apart little by little. I am going to be that petty person that always makes a big deal out of the smallest slight, because I want to be seen that way. I want people to know that you're not as good as they all think you are just because you're open and nice. And it's sad to see those sorts of things, because, honestly, if that person I look at somebody that's and trust me, we've all worked with petty people. Okay? I've worked with some of the people that are on that podium of, I am the petty princess today. You cannot be the petty person today. Your day is Tuesdays. This is a Wednesday. I am the petty princess today. I've worked with people that are so freaking petty, they literally I just can't even get into it. It's for an episode someday. But, um, I view those people as something happened to them in their lives that made them so vulnerable, they don't ever want to be put back there. And if they're truly their honest, authentic self, if they allow them, because you can't be authentic without having some vulnerability. Like you're right. I have put a lot of stuff out there on this podcast, but I didn't do it just because I've done it so many times. I'm comfortable doing it. I've let stuff be known in this podcast that I've hardly told anyone, and here I am just putting on the Internet. So it's always there forever, everybody. You can always have it. But honestly, for me, that was a personal journey of I don't need to hold on to this baggage. And if it can help somebody, I'd rather it help somebody. But does it mean I have to be vulnerable? Yes. Will some people think I'm bullshitting on some of the stories? I'm sure some do. I haven't. That's all 100% true. Um, am I leaving myself vulnerable to people who might identify themselves in my stories? Yeah, probably. But you were part of that story. You were a character in that story. You have to own up to your part in that. That's not for me to hide your stuff. That's on you. I'm talking about my part of the story. I don't have to hide what happened to me because you'd prefer you not be seen that way. That's, uh, for you to work out. Get a therapist work it out. I have to be vulnerable to be genuine. You can't be genuine and not be vulnerable because by default, you're pushing back on something else, right? You're not being your whole self. And that is scary for a lot of people. And it's fine to have partitions. Like, I keep my professional life, my personal life separate. No problem with that. Do you? But if you're going to be genuine at work, you're going to have genuine emotions at work. There are times you're going to be really proud and you're going to be beaming with pride, and there are times you're going to be really angry. And you need to control that anger because you don't want to take it out on people, especially if you're the problem. And so that takes some reflection and internalization and working through that emotion in a productive way. That has to be done intentionally. You don't accidentally become a productive human being. You don't accidentally work through emotions like that. You have to internalize it and put it into a different energy space. But when people are petty, it's because they can't be. That is my opinion. Um, you ever, um, have those people that focus on the smallest stupid bullshit and you're just like, why are we even having this conversation? Like, we were just talking about something really big. We're setting big goals. And you're fixated on this one thing that, candidly, if this means this much to you, get a team of three people, bang it out. What will it take you a week? Just get it done. But no, it's the most insurmountable obstacle. And you just look at it and say, why are you being this way? Why are you stopping progress? Well, it's because for them, that's the hill they're willing to die on, because that's what they feel they can do and not be vulnerable. That's my opinion. And so the workplace is about emotion because humans are in it. It's about being intellectual too, because it's the workplace. That's where you're supposed to be intellectual. You're supposed to be logical. You're supposed to use the right side of your brain at work, but the left side is still there. And candidly, it can't come out because that's the side of your brain that's going to look at your users from their worldview, that is going to be able to be empathetic to your customers. That allows you to evaluate projects and where's our next priorities and what's our next bhag. And for those of you that aren't familiar with the term, it's big hairy audacious goal. And I'm not substituting audacious for ass. It is big hairy audacious goal, not big hairy ass goal. Come on, guys. What, um, is our next? And when you want to think about that and do those visionary things, that is very much as much of an emotional exercise as it is an intellectual. You know, people say, I'm from the Missouri State, and um, I'll believe it when I see it. Right? Um, I've got to be honest with you guys. Unless you believe some things, you won't see a damn thing. Like, if you can't visualize that future for yourself, you can't visualize achieving those things and your role in it, you'll never see it and you'll never be part of it. So you kind of need to be all in on both the intellectual and the emotional side. But when you have toxic work environments, what do they crush you on? Your intellect? No, because those are facts, right? Nobody sits there and goes, so I've looked at your numbers, and they check out. Okay, thanks. Who does that? Right? So I just looked at your modeling, and there's one thing you didn't consider. You forgot Guam. Oh, thanks for calling that out. Let me add Guam in. Okay. I got Guam in. All right. Don't forget about Guam next time. Nobody does that. When you're in a toxic work environment, nobody's going to attack you on an intellectual basis, because that's a much harder hill to climb, because metrics are what they are. Facts are what they are. And you now are going to make a buffoon of yourself trying to argue facts that are in front of your face. So what do they do? They're going to attack on the emotional side. Right. And what do humans do? Humans are pack animals. Right. In fact, it's so unlike a human to be solitary that you call them a recluse. If they don't want to leave their home, you call them a hermit. We have names for those human beings. We're social creatures, and we're meant to interact socially. Right. Stell so how do you attack someone that's weak in the pack? You make them weak. It's like this constant fight for alpha. And when you're not even trying to be alpha, you're like, no, I'm just good being here. Like, what the fuck? So then you get into these whole things of, well, now we have to make them the problem, and you have to paint them a certain way. And so you revert to all of those schoolyard behaviors because you didn't like to be that flashback girl. I know, right? It's PTSD. Trigger warning. I was called a recluse. Were you really? Uh, I'd never heard that. So that happened. I'm so sorry. I should have trigger warning this, but I'm a Gen Xer, so, like, trigger warning, we still do it. Because, again, I'm not trying to steamroll people, but we're from Gen X. So let, uh, me give something every Gen X listener is going to say. Relatable. Before there was social media, before there was the Internet, you would have in person time with your friends. Yes. When you were a kid, how did you know where, uh, everyone was? By the bikes that were on the lawn of someone's house. Yeah. And then if you drove by and you saw all your friends bikes, but you weren't invited. You get a stab in your heart because you're like, what the hell? Why are they all here? And you have that second where you're like, so do I stop by or no, because I didn't know anybody was here. And you take a chance if you say, I'm going to just pull up and put my bike in and knock on the door, hey, what are you guys doing? But a lot of kids will just be like, you know what? I guess I'll just go home. And that's so sad. But that's what before chat rooms, before emails, before Facebook and Twitter X, before any of that existed, you had to talk to somebody in their face. And so when you wanted to shit talk about somebody behind their back, you literally did it behind their back. Like, you go in a corner, go I heard Stephanie was like, you literally gossiped about somebody or you called someone on the phone. And do you remember, um, when you would three way call people and then they would have party lines, which you could hear nobody because everybody was talking at the same time. Was like this ludicrous thing. But it all excited us because okay, now, with a three way call, I can be on the phone with two of my friends at the same time, which means we can have a fun conversation and low key. Those bitches aren't talking about me, and they know I'm not talking about them because we're all on the phone together. Together. So it just was a different time for us. Our kids my kids are millennials. Those guys in Gen X grew up with the Internet. Grew up with and it's only getting worse because now you have AI in there, right? So, you'll see, I saw a video, and I'm like, and that video is fake. And here's how I can show you. It's fake. Um, but you are seeing something with your eyes. You're hearing something with your ears. You're reading something, and you internalize that the same way as if it was in real life. And that's dangerous because it hurts a different way when it comes to the workplace. Yeah, somebody could send an email out. Somebody could literally go out there and read something confidential, like the testimony that I shared on my LinkedIn page. For those of you that aren't familiar with the Workplace Psychological Safety Act, um, right now, it is being, um, considered in Massachusetts. There's plenty of time to send in your own personal testimony. You don't have to live in Massachusetts. If you're interested, send us a line. We'll give you all the information you need. Um, the goal is to pass this statewide, get enough support, and then make this a federal, um, so therefore, nationwide, so that people can be protected so that we don't have to have these stories. So that people aren't having suicidal ideation, which let me pause there. Um, I know we don't have a ton of time left but to think about and we've heard this received, you know, Crystal, who sent us her story and still touches me to this day. But there's certainly been many others, some of which have been, um, spoken about and identified as part of the workplace psychological act. To think about taking your own life because of your job. The one thing we have is ourselves and our life. People as a society. Why do we focus? If you're more worried that I say fuck than you are worried about somebody getting the literal life crushed out of them at your workplace and you're not standing up for them, your priorities need to get in line. You need to think about how hurtful people can be. And if you witness something like that and you don't say anything, you are validating that behavior directly or indirectly validating it. There's also another thing you should be cognizant of. Sometimes someone only has their job. Yeah, that's right. And they're putting a lot of their own value, self worth into the job because they don't have it all together in their personal life. It works both ways. And we have to bring humanity back into the workplace that has humans in it. You know what terrifies me? There's this big push to get everybody back to the office, I guess because you got a bunch of expensive leases that are basically of no value to you. I get it. Do you know why people fight that? It's not because they just want to wear their house slippers and shorts while working. It's not just because they prefer not to spend the gas or the commute time it gives them improved life. Or even that they're more productive because they don't have as many interruptions at home as they do in the office. It's because, candidly, they work with people they prefer not to see on a daily basis. That there is just as much stress think about it. There is just as much stress in dealing. Know John from accounting who gets on your ass every single day, who makes your life absolute hell. That you hate going into work, that you get that punch in the stomach feeling on Sunday nights because you got to see this dick on Monday and it's all going to start all over again. They hate seeing that person so freaking much that being at home is what keeps them sane and keeps them a, uh, productive employee and keeps them working with your organization. Because you haven't done your job as an employer to fix the toxicity within your own workplace and you're going to demand people come back to that. We're in a downturn of our economy now and that's true. But like everything else, it's cyclical. And when the market heats up again, as it inevitably will, because again, it's cyclical, you're going to lose good people because they're not going to want to be there for you because you weren't there for them. It's simple. You aren't there. I know. We did an episode on HR, wasn't particularly popular. Well, it got plenty of listens, I was not particularly popular because I was seen as the anti HR. I'm not anti HR, but, uh, I know people that are HR professionals. They're good people, but let's be honest, they don't work for you. They work for the company. And they have a very specific role. But if you're in human resources and your job is to find and retain good human capital because we're a resource yes. You're not going to do that and keep a toxic workplace in the same moment like you can't. You need to take this time to make sure you've got your own house in order before you start demanding everybody come back to it. You need to ensure you've got good policies in place. You need to use your strength as the human resources leadership to make sure leadership understands. Hey, this guy let's just call it out on the table. You're a dick. There's been tons of complaints against you. And, yeah, you're the top salesperson, so you get away with a lot of shit. But if we're all back in the office, I'm not going to let you get away with that anymore. You can't keep talking about women like you do, because we're going to lose people. And I don't want lawsuits. And, uh, you're going to need to step up your game. But as long as you're stepping up your game to protect the company, step up your game to protect the people, you can do both. Because when this act gets passed I didn't say if, I said when. When this act gets passed in Massachusetts and then in Texas, because that's the next state that's up. And if it passes in Texas good night, ladies and gentlemen. I mean, we're going to push this thing nationwide. Then you will get sued for these sorts of things. You will be held accountable because it will be a law. Now, does that mean I don't like rich people? No, that's not what that means. I, too, uh, want to be rich, Stella. You want to be rich? Yes, of course. I don't want to steamroll over people to be rich. And if that means I'm only comfortably rich versus incredibly wealthy, I'm okay with that. I don't want to get wealthy by stabbing people in the back. I don't want to build an empire on the skeletons of people that I've crushed. I just don't. I believe that when I deliver good value to my customers, that is quantifiable and solid. That they will give me more business. And I will repeat and rinse, rinse and repeat, rather. And that is how I can become comfortably wealthy. If that wealth only matters, uh, in a seven figure salary someday, or a total net worth of only maybe eight figures, I'm still okay. I don't care so long as I did it the right way. So long as I did it the right way. I'm perfectly fine with capitalism. I'm perfectly fine with all of it, but I don't want to do it. I could not be comfortable and sleep well at night if I know that. Yeah, I've gotten everything I ever wanted out of life and left behind a bunch of people who were suffering from psychological or even physical harm or, God forbid, took their own lives because of what I did. I don't deserve any of it. I couldn't be that person. Um, so this is not an anti capitalism thing at all. In fact, I don't see what capitalism has the fuck to do with somebody working in the office or being at home, because it suited everybody just fine during the pandemic. Like, we still kept things moving in this country, and that's a testament to our work ethic, as I think I think we've cleared up some things for some folks. We've probably also confused some folks, but that's all right. That's why you hang out, though. That's why you subscribe, because you get more of this stuff. So, Stella, thanks for doing tea time with me today. Uh, yeah, it's been good. We've talked about a lot of things. But if there's two things you should leave with, is do your best to be authentic. Don't be fake. And secondly, that, um crap, I just forgot. Be authentic. And, um, be kind. Be kind. Be thankful. People fight battles you're unaware of all the time. And if you write in and say, Roberta is a shallow bitch, I am not going to complain about it. Yeah, no complaining. And if you say, Roberta's a fat, shallow bitch, I still won't complain. I'll just hit the treadmill harder. Keep listening for some amazing guests in November. November is about gratitude and focus and closing out the year strong. That is what November is about. We're so grateful to each and every one of you for listening, for following, for commenting, for sharing those things. Keep doing so. We're going to keep authentically being what you need us to be. And we love each and every one of you, even the dirty, grungy ones of you, even the ones that use the F word, like some people use salt and pepper. We love you guys the most. Bye. The ones that are trying. You said that.