The Calm In The Storm- Leadership 2.0

Clouds gather in a once clear sky.  The light gray wisps change to deepening shades of threat.  Breezes that dance with your hair morph into slaps across your face.  You race for shelter as the first violent drops fall from the sky; no pace is sufficient to avoid the emotions in the drops that drench you to your bones.

You reach the door, relieved. The decision turns the knob and you step inside, where relief turns to despair- the swirling chaos of the storm replaces the shelter you anticipated.  There are no walls to protect you.  No roof shields you from the hail that rains down around you.  Your eyes are drawn to the litter within the vortex before you- shreds of gleaming promises,  contorted faces frozen in their last expression of anger, painful, blackened threads of whispers and gossip- and you realize that you have not escaped the storm, but are instead fused with it.

The allegory of a violent storm compared to a day in a toxic work environment may seem dramatic.  However, for those dealing with toxic leaders, bullies, bossholes and the like, the storm is very real.  Employment should not feel like deployment- and leaders need to provide the calm within the storm to create an inclusive, productive, and positive environment.

Alain Hyppolite joins our hosts to discuss this important approach.  Alain is a Canadian-born Haitian father and husband who moonlights as a content creator and writer.   With more than 10 years of leadership experience, Alain spends his time challenging the emotionless corporate grind and sharing how true leadership stems from the heart, not just the head.  See more of Alain's content on LinkedIn, Medium, and his site.

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Transcript

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The Toxic Tea Room podcast is for entertainment purposes only. Neither the Toxic tea Room nor its parent, that one, Booth Productions, LLC, is responsible for the statements or opinions of its guests, submissions, or content derived from publicly available sources. Content should not be interpreted as targeting specific companies, organizations, or individuals. The Toxic Tea Room podcast and that one, Booth Productions, LLC, are not responsible for any actions taken by individuals as a result of any content produced on this podcast. Listeners are encouraged to vet any recommendations with certified professional personnel. For more information on our disclaimer and to read our blog with fun Easter eggs throughout, visit our website at www.toxicteeroom.com. Hi, everybody. I'm M Roberta. And I'm, Stella. Welcome to the Toxic Tea Room. Finally, the end of all of that horrible horror stories. October, though. That was a lot of fun for us, Stella. It was. But now I think we moved into a different phase of fall. Like this is the pre winter phase of fall. Know, it's about holidays and family know Thanksgiving, which as foodies, we love us, some Thanksgiving. What's your favorite meal at Thanksgiving? I'm pretty traditional. I love that M turkey with cranberry. I have to have the cranberry. Cranberry. What about stuffing? Ah. Really? I live for stuffing. Like, if the stuffing is not good, everything else sucks. I'm that person. That's true. I need the stuffing to be on point. If it's not on point, I critique everything else. Everything else is complete trash. If stuffing is not on point, stuffing, to me, is the most important side. if somebody has yams, I don't do the yams. I don't do yams. No. And the way that some people make it with like, syrup and marshmallows on top, is it dessert time? It's a vegetable. Can we not. And then you're going to have the nerve to serve pumpkin pie. What's the difference? Is it just, no yams? I'm okay with cranberry sauce because I think cranberry sauce, if it's made righT, is beautiful. But, like, seriously, Stella, what's the difference? If someone's going to take a vegetable like a yam, okay, and they're going to bake it and then cover it in syrup and put marshmallows on top, what is the difference between that concoction and flip? Because to me, honestly, that's a sweet potato pie. I don't know the difference. I don't know the difference. And then you're going to serve pumpkin pie on top of it. That's bullshit. I mean, let's just call it what it is. That is not suitable. Pick one. If you're going to have pumpkin pie, skip the sweet yams, okay? Go with a different veggie. I can't. But the stuffing is a lot of. People would disagree with. And feel free to write in and tell me that I don't know how to do Thanksgiving, but I will die on this hill. I think that's ridiculous. But stuffing is of critical importance. And don't come at me with stovetop, stuffing. That's not stuffing. That's just some stuff that you have at your house in the pantry in case somebody wants something that tastes vaguely like stuffing. That is not a proper Thanksgiving stuffing. Okay? It's not. So we're not even going to go down this. We're not having that conversation today. We're just not going to. but I'm glad that it's November because it's also about being thankful. You're supposed to be thankful at Thanksgiving, and I'm very thankful. What are you thankful for this year, Stella? Wow. Okay. That's a pretty loaded question. I think I'm most thankful that I decided to believe in myself and venture off into my own business, along with this podcast, because that takes incredible courage to just go into business for yourself. it's hard. It's been a down market this entire year. and yet I have faced my fears with writing a new story for myself. And, yeah, that's what I'm most thankful for. What about. That's kind of deep. I'm thankful for a lot of things. I think one of the things I'm most thankful for is the ability to breathe again. The business entrepreneurship is not for. It's not for the week. It's not. It's a lot of work. it's not that you don't have a boss. It's that you now have the hardest boss you've ever had because it's you. And you can't blame others for your failures and then take credit for your successes. It's still you. So it's about learning from where you may have done better. It's celebrating the successes that are there because you know that you drove that. I am grateful to have you as a partner in this journey. Very grateful for that. and cannibally, just. It's been a challenging year, health wise, too. So I'm grateful to be here. I'm grateful to be on my way to good health. I'm grateful for the support of my friends and families. I've gone through that journey and I'm very grateful for our listeners, who are not only helping to keep this podcast message going, but also, thankfully, sharing of themselves. We've helped some other people and I'm very thankful for that as well. Yes, well, speaking of being thankful, we are very thankful to have a guest. and I'm going to try not to butcher his last name, but his name is Elaine IPolit. Is that right? he's joining us today. Elaine is a Canadian born Haitian father and husband who Moonlights as a content creator and writer with more than ten years of leadership experience. He spends his time challenging the emotionless corporate grind and sharing how true leadership stems from the heart, not just the head. You can find Elaine's short form context on LinkedIn.com. In Elaine, beyond the LinkedIn snippets, he also writes on medium. For more details, go to Elaine Polit me and we'll have that in our show notes. So don't worry and apologize. You don't have to worry about writing that down correctly. It'll be in the show notes. Just if you're on your phone scroll and it's there, it'll be a link. If you're on our blog, it'll be a link. If you're on LinkedIn, it'll be a link. Don't worry about writing it down. It's okay, guys, we got. Welcome, Elaine. Thank you. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. I'm thankful. We love that you're thankful. and if I could just start things off by reading one of your recent LinkedIn posts, Elaine, because I feel it really speaks to what we're trying to convey in this podcast. And this is verbatim, I love this. You're not a type a personality. You're just a jerk. This isn't Game of Thrones. Leadership 20 is less. Listen to me. And more. What do you think? Barking orders? Congrats. You've mastered being a nuisance, not a leader. Too often, people hide behind the type A label, using it as a license to bulldoze others. You'll get absolutely no results by making all the decisions alone. So drop the act and check your title at the door. Titles are given. Respect is earned. Step up or step out. Chow. That almost reads like a poem. I'm here for it. I love it. Tell us more, Elaine, about the concept behind Leadership 20. yeah, thanks. That's actually, one of my favorite posts and one I wrote just a couple of months ago. I think yeah, a lot of what I write is kind of like, social commentary in a way. it's rooted in my own observations and my own experiences, but also the countless horrible stories I've heard from people who have to deal with really bad bosses. and I think it comes from a place, where I feel like traditional leadership is outdated. in my head, like the command control, the top down, the do as I see or my way is the highway type of leadership. That's 1.0 to me. Leadership 2.0, on the other hand, is more human centric. it's really about collaboration, collaborating with your peers, connecting with people, building meaningful relationships. And as a leader, if you're a leader of tomorrow, I think you have, to understand that people aren't like chess pieces you move on aboard. They're not pawns. Your people have real emotions, dreams, aspirations and a life outside of work. And so I think we've entered like, an era where employees and the, changing workforce, they no longer want like a boss. They want like mentors. They crave that. They want leaders, who listen, people who value their perspective. They want a, ah, space where they feel heard, understood and appreciated. And like, I talk about Taipei personality, don't get me wrong. I don't think, being assertive is a bad thing. It can absolutely be great, and an asset as a leader, but it just shouldn't be an excuse to steamroll over people. and I feel like authentic leaders, they ask questions, they're vulnerable. They say things like, I don't know, what do you think? and so, yeah, that's kind of the essence of leadership 2.0 to me. So I went to a discount shop and they had yeses for sale. And I bought all of the yeses just so that I could give them all to you for that entire commentary lane. All the yeses go to you for that. We're high fiving, we're cheering, we're rooting for you. There's lots of people in the back. cheering, there's applause everywhere. I mean, that's everything that we believe in as well. That's incredible. Absolutely. I was thinking the exact same thing. so I heard something just last week that the term work life balance should be life work balance. There does seem to be a shifting tide that was stimulated by working from home. What are some of the ways working from home stimulated a new way to view leadership? I'm so glad you brought this up. I've been recently really deliberate in using, life balance instead of work life balance, because, frankly, work is just work. and so, yeah, when I think about work from home, or remote work, firstly, when we begin, I think the line between, our personal and professional lives became really blurred. it wasn't about commuting to a, physical place called work anymore. our living room, our kitchen, our extra bedroom became, our office. I'm actually in my bedroom right now. And, a lot of us could suddenly produce results without having to leave the house. And, in fact, I'd even argue that we could be even more productIve. And I think with that shift, something really profound happened, because of that, we didn't just see our colleagues and our peers in, like, a professional facade. We saw their homes, we saw their pets, their kids, and the chaos in their home. And so we saw life happening in real time. And I think that humanized absolutely everyone, in this setup, I feel like traditional leadership, the one that's fixated on a nine to five schedule, micromanagement and clock watching, it doesn't work. So I think leaders, have had to trust their people more than ever. And, they had to trust that, even if, they didn't see someone working, the work was getting done. And I think that was, like, a really pivotal moment that shook the, foundation of what people consider, leadership. but I want to point to something else as well, which is, kind of aligned with a bit of my niche and what I speak about or what I write about. Sorry. is that working from home highlighted the importance of empathy and kindness and leadership, check ins weren't just, like, about the status of your project, but they were now about genuine concern. You had to ask questions like, how are you really doing? Are you safe? How's your family? How can I support you? And, I think it became a real necessity for leaders who took the role seriously, to be kind. So, to me, honestly, the shift to remote work, it didn't introduce a new form of leadership per se. I think instead, what it did, it magnified what should have always been there, which is like, trust, flexibility, empathy, and, a focus on results and not hours. It's amazing to hear you say that because I also know there were some folks that said, okay, we're going to put in remote monitoring software on people's computers to see when they're actually typing. And there's all these TikToks of people kind of going around that by having their mouse moved attached to something. It's just hysterical mean. It's just. So, you also. Elaine, you also talk about quiet leadership, and you've posted about introverts, which I am one of those. So, to be clear, I'm an introvert. And, yeah, Stella's giving me the look. Like, stop. Say, what? Yeah, we've, discussed how toxic it can be to have your C suite yelling at you, which we've both been exposed to, especially in front of your peers. So how does quiet leadership kind of counteract that mentality and that kind of behavior? Yeah, that's a topic that's really close to my heart, because I'm, introverted, obviously. so, firstly, I think we need to be clear and just call it out. Like, volume and value aren't synonymous. I think, when you're, thrusted into new, leadership roles, you may believe you have to assert yourself. and, yeah, I just don't think yelling or taking over a meeting makes, you effective. and being loud doesn't mean you're right. in fact, often it's just noise. It's like a distraction. And frankly, like, toxicity. to me, the idea behind, quiet leadership is, like, a simple one. I think, I'm just trying to highlight the strength and, the value in the introspection and active listening, and thoughtfulness, that, introverts bring to the table and, like, tons of EQ as well. Emotional intelligence. when I think of introverts, I think by nature, we tend to be, really good observers. we process information, we think deeply. and I'd like to think could be wrong, but I'd like to think that often we have a heightened sense of empathy. so, yeah, we might not be the loudest in the room, but when we speak, it's really intentional and thoughtful. And if you ask me, those are, like, really amazing soft skills. So, I just feel like it's really important for me to at least try and empower others who may feel, like, invisible or inadequate, because they're a little quieter. but to be fair, to be completely fair, I think whether you're self, proclaimed introvert or extrovert or even somewhere in between, I think the concept behind quiet leadership is less, like, about your personality, but more about, the quality of your leadership. And, yeah, to go back to your original question, I think, I'm just not sure how you can rationalize yelling and, belittling your team as a leader. When has that ever produced, really, sustainable, long term results. It's beyond me. I think it's bad business. I think it's a really bad business. And, you terrify people, right? They become more concerned with avoiding mistakes than pushing boundaries. they hunker down into self preservation mode. instead of doing creative things, they hate coming to work. They won't ask for your help. So just from a business standpoint, I think it's very short sighted. I have to disagree with you on the results thing. It does produce really good results. Let me tell you what the results are. attrition skyrocketing. Skyrocketing. I mean, that off the charts. even my dog is like, yes, off the charts. it contributes to customer attrition as well as employee attrition, because the people that are servicing your customers, that are the face of your company to your customers, don't feel great about being there. And it will show in results. It shows in reduced sales. Hell, yes. If you want to drive down sales, that chart is going. All of those results exist. Now. They're not positive results, but they're results. And the louder you scream, the faster those results come. It's not ever going to be positive because people are kind of tired of that nonsense. This isn't the 19th century. It's not even the 20th century anymore. Things have changed. And to your point, leadership 20. We have to change with it. Stella, what do you think? Yeah, I love that answer, and I love the whole concept, because just like children on a playground, there's so much that can cause someone to elevate their voice. For example, in my opinion, there's a lot of fear going on if you feel that you need to degrade people. because it's almost like you're losing control. I try to think of, is there any instance where yelling is maybe. Maybe in passion, maybe to invigorate, but the yelling should be motivational. and, Roberta, in some ways, you taught me that because of the story you told me about, you would yell good things at your. Oh, yeah, I should share that with Elaine. so in a previous life, there was some screaming going on. I don't want to get into why it happened, but it happened, and I was not the screamer. I was screamed at. Now, that behavior got corrected by the person who did it. I was a president of a business unit. This wasn't, like, early on in my career. And this was a member of the C suite who did that yelling. but when I went to my you know, if. Because there was all sorts of gossip as to Roberta was getting yelled at. Okay? So that was more important than the fact that the other person was the one doing the yelling. And I decided that if anyone was going to hear and gossip about the screaming coming out of my organization, it was going to be about things like this. So I brought HR down, which immediately terrified everybody, because usually HR doesn't provide a comforting presence when people are tense about things, right. They always assume the worst. And I brought my entire team together, and that was now a small feat. I mean, there was, like, 30, 40 people all assembled, in one of the locations. And I said, I'm not comfortable with raising my voice, as you guys know, but today's the day that is going to happen. And I saw everybody tense up. Everybody was like, what's going to happen next? And I had a person on my team, and I've written this story. I actually have this published on my Linkedin, if anybody wants to read it. but I had a sweet person on my team. her name was Tequila. And I'm like, I can do this with TQ. I can do. That was my nickname for it. I'm like, I can do this with TQ. So I pointed at her, and at the top of my voice, I yelled, Tekayla. And she's, like, terrified. Like, just. Her face just changed. And I said, how dare you come in here, motivated every day to do your best. Do you not understand how infectious you are to everybody that surrounds you? Do you not understand how hard you work? I appreciate you so much. And, it changed from I don't know what's going to happen to a bit of bewilderment because my tone did not match the words. And then I just kept doing that to a few people. And then everyone's laughing at this point because they realize no one's getting fired, no one's getting hurt. And after we were done doing that, I told everybody, I said, listen, I don't want us to be quiet about our successes. I want us to scream about them. I want us to be joyous about them. I want us to make the right kind of noise. And if the only time we elevate our voice is when we're cheering, just like when you're at a football game or any sporting event, do you sit quietly when there's something good? No. You scream. You yell, you're excited, but it's not a negative yell, it's a positive yell. I said, we can do that, too. So it became a thing and then out of nowhere, sometimes one of my managers would say something like, so and so. That is incredible. I can't. But everybody listen this. And it was amazing. So it became, like, our thing. But, yeah, there were no rumors about anybody being yelled at out of my organization that someone was in trouble. In fact, they were like, ah, those crazy. Everyone thought we were nuts. They're yelling, get what they're doing in Roberta's organization. They're yelling at people for good. Like, what is that? Like, are you kidding me? Who yells over good things? I'm like, man, your soccer kid must suck, because how horrible is that? My mom's not even yelling for me. I just scored a goal, and someone's like, in a golf clap, right? Like, we don't yell here. Just yell. Hell, make a joyous noise. I couldn't get past it. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Thanks for reminding me about that story. It's okay to yell in a good way, but still, it shook my team a little. They weren't used to. We're conditioned that an elevation of a voice is a negative thing, and I wanted to flip that and make it a positive thing, because in my personal view, and we've said this on this podcast before, when you are screaming at people and belittling them and demeaning them in that way, in a work environment, that's verbal abuse, and nobody should be abused to earn a paycheck. Right? And it's actually, I'll say one last thing. It perpetuates the behavior, because if you're in a role of leadership or you're a boss or a boss hole, then, you are showing your organization that behavior is acceptable, and it is absolutely not. So please stop. I mean, there is just no reason for it other than making yourself look like you can't control a situation. So leading into. I'd like to bring it back to being thankful. If you find yourself wanting to be thankful for a good job where people don't yell, you need a partner and in your corner to get results fast. Don't take it out on your team, gentle listeners. You need escatenna. Escatena eliminates waste and drives real value for your organization. You curious? Visit Escategenna net. That's Escatena net. Unleash uncommon results with Escatena. So, you know, we've talked about Gen Z and how the industry as a whole needs to be prepared for a large group entering the workforce that does not show or expect the same types of loyalty that boomers and Gen Xers were raised with. I believe that your quiet leadership is also indirectly addressing that. Gen Zers were raised with electronic communication. What do you see are the biggest challenges that corporations need to be cognizant of? Great, this is something I'm really passionate about and I've taken notice over the last, three, four years, especially. I think there's like a huge shift happening in front of our eyes right before our eyes. And, the corporate world isn't ready. Like, we have to be honest with one another. but it should be. When I think of Gen Z, I don't think they're just about memes and TikToks. Yes, they're born with a tablet or like a phone in their hands. so yeah, everything is digitized. So they communicate differently, they prioritize differently. and so because of that, to put it bluntly, I think, the old corporate leadership playbook needs to be tossed out the window, around, communication. I think what I picked up on is that, it's not that they don't value human interaction and, Facetime. Sometimes they have time for it, but they've mastered the art of brevity and clarity and digital expression. So send them a text or a DM. if you're a leader today, don't write them 1000 word email. They're not going to read it. They're going to delete that immediately. Back to back to back, hour long meetings. Those aren't sexy either. corporations need to take note. I think some of the other big takeaways for me when it comes to Gen Z, and even millennials to an extent, is, they want to prioritize their mental health and well being. they don't want a job that feels like a 24/7 obligation. they don't care about free donuts and coffee. That's not culture to them. Or like the foosball table. and they truly, genuinely care about inclusion and belonging. I think that's beautiful. they want to grow, they want to be challenged all the time. They want to be promoted all the time as well. So if you're a leader, you have to be authentic and transparent in what you do or you'll risk losing them. and then also I would talk about loyalty when it comes to Gen Z because I think we often hear that they jump ship too frequently. And, I just don't think that's fair. If that's what you think right now, ask yourself this, are they fickle or are they just refusing to settle for mediocrity. Are they disloyal, or have they seen through the bullshit that kept their parents handcuffed to jobs that didn't value them? I think they seek purpose or value, and transparency, and we can't blame them. The answer is B, evErybody. If you want the cheat sheet, the answer to both of those questions is B. Elaine. I feel compelled to highlight the stark contrast in what appears to be an increasingly violent world. Right. it's not just. And again, I'm a Gen Xer, right? So Gen Z is my spirit animal, and I cheer them on. I'm like, yeah, don't stand for that bullshit. Let's go. Absolutely. You stand up for that. That's right. Don't put up with that. I had to put up with that. Don't you put up with that. Yeah, I feel bad. I'm like, dang, why did I put up. Amen. Right? We're like. We're chumps. I can't tell you anything because we put up with that nonsense. We're chumps. but it's an increasingly violent world out there, right? and it's almost as if people are no longer even taking any regard to putting on some sort of front elsewhere. Like, it's just increasingly. Okay. And I'm highlighting. I mean, it's such a contrast to what you're speaking to, Elaine, and having that quiet, deliberate leadership and being able to use empathy and connect with your people. All of these callous and toxic interactions at work that have gone on for so long. We did an episode with Farah Harris on microaggressions, and that was one of my favorite episodes because that's the death of a thousand cuts. It feels like you're getting stabbed in the heart, but somebody's just passing it along, but they know what they're doing, and they're just passing it along. Not quite to the degree of federal laws breaking, not quite to the degree of illegal discrimination, but just enough to let you know that I don't welcome you here, that I don't view you equitably, and those sorts of. That callousness that exists and it's rampant. That's why one of the reasons we're here is to talk about those things openly, so that people know that they have a voice and that they're not alone as they suffer through this. How can real leaders, real leaders advance this quiet leadership concept within their own organizations that may be rife with that kind of toxicity? And it's hard to be the only one sometimes to be opposite of that. How would you recommend somebody go about establishing that concept at their workplace? Yeah, I think it's definitely an uphill battle. I think, it's a challenging time, I think, in the world right now. Look at what's happening in the Middle east, right now. I, think we live in a really fast world, a, ah, fast and noisy world. And, like screaming headlines, divisive politics. there's like a lot going on in the world and I think, as a leader, if you take yourself seriously, I think it starts with a really radical idea, which is just listening. I, think you'd be amazed at how revolutionary, it is to truly listen to your people. Not just hear, but genuinely absorb what someone's saying. listening to understand, not, just to, reply. creating spaces where every voice, especially the quietest, feel valued. if you feel the urge to dominate the conversation or think out loud, like pause, give someone else the floor, you're not surrendering power or weak for doing it. You're actually sharing power with your people. And to me, that's real leadership. I think by doing that, it breeds inclusion and belonging. But, you inspire people. Because we talked about the Gen Z's and, nobody's inspired by tyrants. Not in the right way, anyway. that makes me think of, the golden rule. Treat others the way you want to be treated. One other thought I had about all of this is that the more we do see violence and the years seem to be shorter now because of everything that's thrown at us. In fact, I heard, something a few years back. I'm a conceptual thinker, so I don't know who said this, but, it said something like, we're exposed to thousands of things every day. Like, just between media, like going out and our work and everything, that it's really making it seem like time moves faster. Because, hey, it's already in November. Just yesterday it was January. in a culture or a world that has so much going on, so much noise, so much violence, quiet leadership to me is even more important, because it's a differentiator. And as you stated earlier, Elaine, the more you feel safe, the more creative you can be. you're not going to get creativity. If you feel like you're under attack and you're constantly having to show what you are worth to an organization, then you're just in defense mode. so I think it speaks very highly to how important Ah, quiet leadership is. Did you have something, Roberta? No, I'm being quiet and offering the. Space for others in real time. I love know because we share leadership on this podcast. So, no, I think it was brilliant. Great. Yeah. Can I add, I would add to your point, Stella, that, yeah, there's like, a need for psychological safety. And I think, we've been hearing the term come up, more frequently recently. And I think quiet leadership allows for, you know, work life balance, too. Right? Like, quiet leadership allows the leader to calm the waters and, to make things a bit more still. And I think that's really important today. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I know this much. I would be very careful who I wanted to add onto my team as a practitioner of Leadership 2.0. Thankfully, we have hire my mom to help hire my mom works closely with us to get the most highly qualified candidates in record time. If you are frustrated with hundreds of resumes in your inbox and no qualified candidates for your role, you need to do something different. Visit hiremymom.com and get 15% off job listings with the code toxic tea room at checkout. They're a great team at hire my mom. I mean, just legitimately. They make our lives so much easier. I'm really happy that to be affiliated with those guys, they do such a great job of prescreening for toxicity so that nobody has to. You don't hire it and you don't go apply to it. It's beautiful stuff in today's world. Very much needed. Elaine, do you have any closing thoughts for our audience? Sure. Yeah. Ah, well, firstly, thank you so much for having me. closing thoughts would be like, the world's changed a lot. if the last few years taught us anything, it's that, rigidity doesn't work. You have to be open to new ways of working, communicating, and collaborating with people. people don't follow memos. They follow people. be the person that people want to follow. and then, yeah, finally, if you want to find more of my content, you can find me on LinkedIn or medium. I also share, raw and, unfiltered insights. Every Saturday at 930, a M, Eastern time through a newsletter. all that can be found on Alainpulit me. So. A-L-A-I-N-H-Y-P-P-O-L-I-T-E me. Thanks again. You're so welcome, and we really loved having you. Yes, thank you. This has been an enlightening episode. Elaine, I am so incredibly proud to have you as a guest, I hope we can have you back. In the meantime, general audience, we need to wrap this up so Elaine can get back to encouraging. But keep sending those stories to the teabag at Ah, toxictroom.com. And please subscribe and follow us on LinkedIn, X, Instagram, and TikTok. You can also support us by supporting our various affiliates. Look on our blog for additional information. We will share this episode and resources as always, in the show notes and on our blog at ah, toxictroom.com slash blog. And remember, folks, to be thankful. Be thankful for the little things and the big things. And as Elaine was talking about people, I had a song going through my head. So perhaps I'll use that to help close us out. Stella. Okay, let's do it. I'm a Gen Xer, so I got to go back to the 80s for this one. But this group again, there's a lot of hills that I'll die on, but I've got military backup on this hill, so don't come at me, okay? Just. I dare you. This is a classic group. Transcends time and age. Little group known as Depeche Mode. Classing M up the joint. Anybody want to, join in? Come on, let's go. You and I should get along so awfully, people. M are people. So bye, everybody. Bye. Who.