Toxic Tearoom
The tea is piping hot! Get ready to clutch your pearls! This is the podcast where you can bring your break room whispers to the world!
This is a safe space to share stories of bossholes and bitchiness, of toxicity and drama, all while understanding the underlying issues that feed these toxic environments. You will laugh. You will relate. You will understand- and you will survive. You are not alone!
Your hosts are two dynamic executives who take the issues seriously- but not themselves. Join them and a variety of top-tier guests as we discuss the brutality of these issues in an honest, raw, funny, and inclusive way.
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Toxic Tearoom
WTF Happened to Silicon Valley?
"Greed is good," said Gordon Gekko of "Wall Street" fame, with hair slicked back and hardened- as if his pomade was hand-wrung from the ink of his petroleum stocks. Talking on impossibly large cell phones (by today's standards), drinking, drugs, and the ever-present insider trading, "Wall Street" encapsulated the extremes of 1980s capitalistic worship- and all of its downfalls.
Today's Gordon Gekkos look relaxed in front of CNBC cameras, a sportcoat at most, waxing poetic verse about the grand changes their companies' tech would produce, eagerly identifying themselves as the first/the innovator/the unicorns, gleefully accepting the coffers of capital and credit presented by investors at their feet. These Gekkos are not stock brokers. These Gekkos relish in singularity but swam in circles like schools of fish around sharks. These Gekkos bathed in the California sun versus the steel and glass reflection of the New York skyline, but the greed was ever-present.
And no, it was not good.
Welcome to Silicon Valley, 2022-2023. Fueled by equal parts genius, arrogance, callousness, and of course, the pandemic, Silicon Valley reemerged as the birthplace of billionaires with dazzling solutions and valuations. However, for many startups, the solutions touted to investors were as much designed to attract investors as they were to solve a problem- perhaps a solution in search of a problem. A change in consumer habits post-COVID and these companies fell hard and fast- like Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce fell in love. It seemed appropriate to have Tay and Trav show up in the show notes, because they are everywhere. Unlike Trav and Tay Tay, however, there is nothing to love about these greedy companies.
Your hosts will discuss the spectacular start-up failures in Silicon Valley, the billions upon billions of dollars wasted, the dizzying rise of these companies, and the devastation left behind when those companies crashed. The common thread of these stories- greed- and the volume of waste these companies left behind will have you feeling some kind of way, as it were.
2023 Was An Extinction Level Year For Tech Startups- Mercury News
Tech Company Layoffs the COVID Tech Bubble Bursts- Information Week
How Big Tech's Predatory Culture Fueled Failures Like Silicon Valley Bank- LA Times
Glassdoor
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theteabag@toxictearoom.com
Thanks for listening to Toxic Tearoom! Follow us on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, X and Patreon. Are you in a toxic workplace? Tell us about it at TheTeabag@ToxicTearoom.com. We promise anonymity, empathy, and a healthy dose of humor.
The toxic tea room is for entertainment purposes only. The Toxic tea Room podcast and its parent, that one, Booth Productions, LLC, ah, are not responsible for any actions taken by individuals because of any content produced on this podcast, including statements from its hosts, guests, submissions, or content derived from publicly available sources. Listeners are in courage to vet any recommendations with certified professional personnel. To view our full disclosure, visit our website at www.toxictroom.com. We're itching to get into it, so let's go. I'm Roberta.
>> Speaker B:And I'm, Stella. welcome to the toxic tea room.
>> Speaker A:I am so excited for this episode, Stella.
>> Speaker B:Me too. I'm excited anytime. What the fudgeicles is in the title?
>> Speaker A:Is this our effort at being a little more sanitized on this? We usually do a not safe for work. This is a safe for work. Okay, we'll give it a whirl. same, especially in this particular subject, as we have personal experience in this area.
>> Speaker B:Yes, absolutely.
>> Speaker A:Freaking lootly fudgeicals. today we are discussing what the fudgeicles happen to Silicon Valley. Silicon Valley is the birthplace of creative tech minds eager to start the next big thing and filled with success stories like Apple and meta Facebook for those over the age of 20 and more. while the valley has been the womb to birth billionaires, it's also the tomb for failed startups. Some spectacular failures at that, which has led to massive and sudden unemployment, stranded customers, and an incredible loss of money.
>> Speaker B:Absolutely. If Arlington Cemetery is the final resting place for heroes, the valley is the final resting place for a lot of zeros, especially after last year. In fact, Roberta, you know what I saw today?
>> Speaker A:What's up?
>> Speaker B:That, a warehouse tech company just laid off 99 people today or yesterday.
>> Speaker A:Wow.
>> Speaker B:Something like that.
>> Speaker A:Yes.
>> Speaker B:The death count, man.
>> Speaker A:I mean, I like zeros as additions to a bottom line. Like, hey, like 810. Twelve figures, nine figure. I mean, we like zero with that, but I think we just mean, like, less than zero. I think sometimes on those bottom lines. Oh, my gosh. Well, let's get into it. The Mercury News referred to 2023 as, quote, an extinction level year for tech startups. And I have to agree. The author clearly defines the issue, quote. During more flush years, venture capitalists, angel investors, and billionaire evangelists poured their cash into tech startups. The easy money pipe was seemingly open to any Tom, Dick, or Harry who had an idea and was willing to attach a buzzy phrase like blockchain or AI to it. Valuation soared, and unicorn companies, those startups said to be worth 1 billion or more proliferated. But now, with high interest rates, an, uncertain economic environment, and a banking crisis that hit Silicon Valley adjacent banks hard, including one literally called Silicon Valley bank, there's been a shortage of funds for early stage, companies, and a lack of opportunity for late stage companies to cash out. For investors looking to maximize their money, better opportunities exist elsewhere. End quote.
>> Speaker B:Wow. What I find interesting is the direct cause and effect between a loss of investor capital and the massive layoffs that seem to follow. In that same article, we learned that more startups have to shut down in the third quarter. Had to shut down in the third quarter of 2023. Since Carta began tracking the data almost five years ago, so far this year, 543 startups on Carta's platform have shuttered. That's a quote. This is an incredible number. I can look at that two ways. One, the companies didn't have a chance to get off the ground before things went south. Or two, some of these companies business models were grossly overrated. So without investor money, they had no business at all.
>> Speaker A:And some firms raised big money. WeWork raised 11 billion with a b dollars. Convoy, which we all know too well, brought in 900 million. And both of these companies have filed for bankruptcy. In fact, there was a lot of focus on supply chain in the valley. Firms like Uber, Freight convoy, and others who, we cannot name due to disparagement clauses and certain agreements that we have signed, felt they could solve the complexity of supply chain with tech. There is a saying in that industry. Stella.
>> Speaker B:Yep. A rising tide floats all boats.
>> Speaker A:Exactly. And these boats, as it were, were kept afloat by the pandemic driven volumes and ridiculously high transportation costs that were reflected as overly valued revenue and supported by eager investors happy to ride the tide, hoping to cash out before the tide rolled back out.
>> Speaker B:And then Silicon Valley bank happened. The nail in the coffin.
>> Speaker A:It certainly didn't help things, did it? and here's the thing. That money is not coming back. There are some investments in real tech, like AI, but most money is sitting right now. The appetite for risk is very low, particularly in this area.
>> Speaker B:Yeah, all these closed companies, or even greatly reduced companies, so many lost jobs. It is still continuing to this day. Information Week keeps a running total of tech layoffs starting in 2022 to current day. Last December, Bolt, an ecommerce startup that provided one click checkouts for companies such as K jewelers and Casper, laid off 29% of its workforce. Zulilly, another Ecom company, Hope I said that right, laid off 839 people and closed fulfillment centers in Ohio and Nevada.
>> Speaker A:Don't forget D two IQ, the cloud infrastructure startup that raised $250,000,000 shut down altogether on December eigth. Zest money done Viv once valued at over a billion dollars. With 600 million raised, gone. So many others are trying to hang on by their fingernails, laying off in rounds, trying to find a model, any flipping model that will attract investor dollars. Notice investor dollars. Right. Not customers.
>> Speaker B:Right.
>> Speaker A:Any model that will m attract investor dollars.
>> Speaker B:Yes. Locking up all that capital has an impact, for sure. Uber freight had multiple rounds of layoffs in 2023 as well, and just went through another round that affected transplace employees. For all the quote unquote solutions that these companies were allegedly bringing to market to solve supply chain woes, it is amazing to see 88,000 trucking companies close their doors in 2023 alongside 8000 freight brokers. First off, I didn't even know we had 8000 freight brokers, but that's another discussion.
>> Speaker A:A lot of freight brokers. Holy smokes. yes. And you know what? Look. Those of us old enough to remember trickle down economics are shaking our heads. Between 2022 and 2023, 284,000 employees were affected in mass layoffs for us based tech companies. Or tech companies with a large us based workforce. With tech everywhere in our lives, it seems counterintuitive to lose so many jobs in a sector we depend upon daily, doesn't it?
>> Speaker B:Yes. What I'm challenged by is how that amount of money amounted to nothing.
>> Speaker A:Literally nothing.
>> Speaker B:Where is all the tech innovation?
>> Speaker A:None.
>> Speaker B:Supply chain, for example, needs tech, but it needs the right tech in the right places.
>> Speaker A:agreed.
>> Speaker B:Billions of dollars invested in companies to deliver exactly that. And we have nothing.
>> Speaker A:We have jack shoot, because we're trying to keep it pg. Jack shoot. Well, jack shoot and Google sheets. Yeah, sorry. Sorry, everybody. That's an inside joke. We got Google sheets for all that.
>> Speaker B:Know, all of this has me wound up, so I need to calm down.
>> Speaker A:It's a little personal. It's a little close to home. Look, I understand.
>> Speaker B:Can I just add something?
>> Speaker A:Yeah, of course.
>> Speaker B:Why are investors? Are they dumb? Sorry, investors, I like you, but are you dumb? It's like, what are they reviewing in the business plan? Or is this truly just whose ego you can stroke on Wall Street?
>> Speaker A:I think it's more than investors. I do think that, private equity has a place and a good place. But when you look at some of, the amount of capital and these valuations, out of freaking what? Yes, the valuations is what kills me. So you gave me $250,000,000. You value my company at a billion dollars and I have nothing, is what I think you're alluding to is that's fascinating, because when we actually have a company with a real business model, and even customers can't get a loan at the bank, but when you have a private equity firm around and you're in Silicon Valley at that time, you could basically sneeze and say, ah, chew AI, and somebody's throwing you a quarter of a billion dollars. What the frickin frack. Almost slipped, almost slipped. Almost slipped. Frickin'frack and floppy docs. and look, these startups were flush with other people's money. They lured in top talent with above average salaries, IPO promises, and more. Some spent lavishly, some spent irresponsibly. Those are not the same thing. Some spent lavishly, some spent irresponsibly. Some companies are gone altogether, while some are changing business models like underwear, hoping something will stick, which is gross to think about, where you're talking about changing like underwear. In the meantime, former employees, former customers, former vendors are all in alerts. Lost income, lost service providers, and lost revenue due to mismanagement and greed, it.
>> Speaker B:Is totally using those people. I mean, what about Silicon Valley bank? That collapsed in a heartbeat. And at what cost?
>> Speaker A:SVB investors are wiped out. Tens of billions of dollars. Poof, just gone. Tens of billions of dollars. It makes me angry. Tens of billions of dollars.
>> Speaker B:Yeah. Freaking a.
>> Speaker A:So much flipping money. It's like such a waste. Look, investments happen. Investors take gambles, and you hopefully get upside. You know, you're going to lose some on some investments, but to lose this much money in, a concentration of both industry and candidly, geographically, it astonishes me to think about what else could have been done with that money. But it's not just the money, right? Because it's the impact on that whole ecosystem, the employees, where the employees shop, their families, all of their providers, the people that they had to let go because they were no longer getting paid, all of the loans that were now more difficult to get. All of this has ripple effects that affect every single human being. And for all of the promises that some of these opportunities would have delivered to everybody to impact our day to day lives, none of it is there. What a complete and total. You would have been better off putting all that money in the parking lot and allowing all of us to take a, I want to say sheet, but that's close enough to take a sheet upon it, light it, ablaze and at least, use it for warmth. That would have been better use of that money than what actually happened. Because we not only lost the money, we lost exponentially beyond what just the investors lost out of pocket. It's all of that ripple effect and all of the trauma that still has ripple effects today. To a lot of people, that's the greatest tragedy of all of this. It's ridiculous.
>> Speaker B:Yeah. I'll just say one more thing, for right now.
>> Speaker A:Got you.
>> Speaker B:Disclaimer.
>> Speaker A:Got it.
>> Speaker B:you wonder if a lot of the quote unquote tech that was supposed to revolutionize or at least bring supply chain up to the 2000s.
>> Speaker A:Sure.
>> Speaker B:Right. Because they were behind the times. But, how much of that was real solutions and how much of it was buzwords that sounded good, but didn't really solve much.
>> Speaker A:Yeah, I think it's the latter.
>> Speaker B:Yeah. For example, visibility is key.
>> Speaker A:Yes.
>> Speaker B:And there's a lot that can be done with visibility. Agreed. But when you get down to it, especially in international trade, you don't need to see that the boat is on the water every single day.
>> Speaker A:No, it's on the water, like, for.
>> Speaker B:The 30 days that it's on the water, or even 15 days that it's on the water.
>> Speaker A:On the water.
>> Speaker B:So it sounds like, oh, yeah, that's going to totally revolutionize if I can see where it is. But you don't really need to know where it is when it's in the middle of the ocean.
>> Speaker A:Yeah, you're right. I mean, it'd be the same as saying, hey, look, we invented a lawn mower that is going to watch the length of your grass. And then, when the grass is just at the right length where you got to cut it, the lawnmower is going to send a notice to your app saying, time to cut the grass. Nobody needs that. But, that model that I just spit off the dome, I bet if I put that down in some kind of loose business plan, I could have at that time gotten funded for it and say, that's exactly what business people need. An apt to tell them because their eyes can't tell them that the grass needs to be cut. And sitting there watching grass grow, I mean, that's the only way you can know, right, when grass needs to be cut. Just like sitting and watching a boat, a massive freaking cargo ship on the water that is going to still be on the water tomorrow. It's going to be on the water until it wait for it pulls into dock. Let's make sure we design for that, I totally get saying. Sorry, Stella. What's the saying? I built a solution looking for a problem.
>> Speaker B:Yeah.
>> Speaker A:I didn't build a solution to solve a problem. I'm now trying to find the problem for the solution that I crafted in my mind and said, this is the next big thing, and I have a bunch of other people's money to make it work.
>> Speaker B:Yeah. So let's talk about something that is cool.
>> Speaker A:Okay.
>> Speaker B:Hire my mom.
>> Speaker A:Yay.
>> Speaker B:It's been a leader in recruitment and placement since the. That's the 1990s for you young bucks.
>> Speaker A:Oh, that's.
>> Speaker B:Anyways. And it is not just for your mom. What hire my mom can do for your company is find the best candidate for you to work for you without sorting through thousands of, Chat GPT.
>> Speaker A:Oh, the resume. Yeah.
>> Speaker B:Prompts. Yeah. Ah, you get the right candidate, and candidates get a prescreened employer as well. If you were impacted by these layoffs in 2023 or more recently, give hire my mom a shout, visit hiremymom.com and use code toxict room at, ah, checkout for your 15% off job listings.
>> Speaker A:I love those guys. I love those guys. On our layoffs and lies episode, we discussed the irresponsible, toxic employer that pretends all is fine until mass layoff day. Yeah. God. mass layoffs held over Zoom were and are commonplace. Continued shuffling at the top is another red flag. You cannot draft, execute, and deliver upon a strategy when your leadership is a revolving door. Let's read one Glass door review that exemplifies this concept. I've substituted the company name in this review with the word moose poop.
>> Speaker B:Nice.
>> Speaker A:Thank you. And removed any identifying commentary. To protect the innocent, I will title this one does a moose poop in the woods. Here we go. Now, for those of you that are unfamiliar with Glassdoor, Glassdoor is a site. They do have a job board on their site as well, I think. But, most of Glassdoor is about reviews that employees, both current and former, leave about their employer. And it's great if you're job searching because I have a saying, if you want to walk through a minefield, best to follow the footsteps of someone that made it through the other side, forging your own path. Not typically recommended, though. There's always that one guy says, I bet it's a shortcut over there. Boom. Not really. It's great because you can search by company, you can see what the average star rating is, and then you get to actually read the review. The title of the person who left the review. So it gives you really good perspective. They organize their reviews with pros, cons, and recommendations for management. Okay, so we're going to start with the pros of this particular review. Does a moose poop in the woods? Pros management did a great job of attracting a talented workforce. That's the pro, great cons. Here we go. To understand the work culture at Moose Poop, you have to know its history. Two years ago, the company was considered by investors a, Silicon Valley darling. They hired top talent from some of the most successful tech companies the world has to offer. They opened offices across the United States, heralding great pay, benefits, options, and the opportunity to change the world. It was a gold rush, spurred by big investments that led the company to dazzling valuations. If you've worked at Moose Poop, you know the vision and the supporting software is a complex organism offering a cascading list of custom and integrated APIs requiring many different specialties. To fulfill the vision of a simplified model, figuring out what position the company played in the market deemed itself just as complex. The company hired swaths of senior managers and directors for different divisions to support those efforts. Eventually, the cost of competing in these fields required investments and promises to clients. Incentives and expectations for sales members ballooned to numbers that appeared unsustainable at the behest of the CEO. Those directives led to some bumbling mistakes. The company continued to struggle. A lack of information on the company website, paired with questionable design choices, made users question what the company does, or even the legitimacy of its product. It made sales incredibly difficult for each of its divisions. The company effectively hamstrung itself. Within the year, the cash infusion from investment seemed to wane. The cost cutting and reefficiencies began. The CEO took power away from senior leaders and kept around those that would fulfill his original vision, keeping the train on a single track with no ability to turn. As time went on, you could feel the CEO's grasp on the bottom line, the company and reality slipping. He berated leaders in meetings in front of their peers, encouraged them to quit, and openly admitted plans to eliminate entire departments. Sounds like a fun time. Internally, there was no mistake. This was all foreshadowing. Not a devious way to motivate. I'm going to pause there if that's a devious way to motivate. I don't understand that sentence. A devious way to motivate. I don't get it, but okay. The CEO scheduled ad hoc, all hands. Employees would attend with bated breath, wondered what type of crazy one liner he'd spew. They could put on their bingo cards of crazy for that week. Things got. Oh, my God. Things got more contentious with the CEO and meetings. Fear among employees increased. Employees would do this circle and dance weekly. How exhausting. So many new managers would come with great ideas and in most instances, basic business fundamentals once presented directly to. You just figure that. Basic business fundamentals once presented directly to the owner, they quickly realized their input was neither valued or appreciated. Recently, the company laid off another wave of employees, moving the company far past half its workforce from a year ago. There were significant layoffs from 2022 to 2023. Employees that weren't let go saw their friends struggle to find jobs to get on their feet. In many cases, employees were let go months and weeks after leaving a job to go work for Moose Poop. That's bullshit. Okay, so if I follow. They extended an offer. Someone left a job. They had accepted the offer, only to be let go weeks or months after.
>> Speaker B:Yes.
>> Speaker A:Oh, yeah. They certainly had a plan. Oh, my gosh. They have everything under control at Moose Poop. It sounds like employee morale had been sapped. Hundreds of people and families mental health has been affected by the stress of this company and the culture emboldened by its CEO and in some instances, because of his vindictive pursuits. The real tragedy isn't what happened to the company in Silicon Valley. It's in the people that have been let down by the.
>> Speaker B:Mean so much there.
>> Speaker A:Oh, my.
>> Speaker B:This, I like this. It's so well put together. So kudos to, kudos to whoever wrote this.
>> Speaker A:Put it.
>> Speaker B:Yeah, for sure. But, yeah, to me, it's an insane ask when your strategy changes every week and how does anyone stand a chance? And I really like that basic business fundamentals, because some people think that that is so last season. But business works because of business fundamentals. They don't have to sound sexy, but business is business like.
>> Speaker A:You should net positive. Holy freaking, my God. I have to tell you the incredible stress of the constant change in direction.
>> Speaker B:Yes.
>> Speaker A:That tells me, in the case of moose poop, what they were looking for. If you're trying to change direction to find the next sexy hook to get another infusion of capital, and it didn't work, so you got to change again to get the next injection of capital, you shouldn't have to change your direction on the daily. I'm all for being flexible. I think flexibility is a strength of a company. I think if you can respond quickly, that's a good thing. It allows you to have fluidity it allows you to be responsive to your customers. But if you have to whole change, change your model. look, I've done sales, for example. You can't just say, today we're going to sell this type of product. So go build a pipeline. Here's your value prop. Here's all your stuff. Go sell. Go find prospects. So you do that, you get them in a pipeline, say, oh, yeah, we're not going to do that anymore. We're doing this now. you can't win. You can't win. What a horrible thing. But for me, the most important takeaway is the residual financial and emotional trauma left by companies like moose poop. Because they're not the only one, by the way. Yeah, I know this isn't just affecting the employee. To this poster's point, these events impact families, communities, vendors and more. The trickle down economics seem to resemble a particular body fluid. I think our listeners have the image in mind. That's a trickle down sheet or peace. And I don't mean peace like, let there be peace.
>> Speaker B:Anyway. Well, for companies that desire a different.
>> Speaker A:Result, which should be everybody, by the way, which should be. Every company should desire a different result. Just putting it out there.
>> Speaker B:yeah, I dare say an uncommonly good result. Seek out the sages at Escatena.
>> Speaker A:Love those guys.
>> Speaker B:Escategenna provides an array of business solutions designed to accelerate your business without poisoning your bottom line or the environment. Yeah, sustainability solutions are a specialty. Visit escategenna. Net Escat or send a note to unleash at escateg to get started on unleashing uncommon results.
>> Speaker A:Thanks, Dell. Bing. Bing.
>> Speaker B:Where's that bell you have?
>> Speaker A:I do have my little bell. I don't know where I put it. It's not a bell. It's a gong. Right? Well, what it is, it's not even a gong. What do they call this thing? Apologies, to the listeners, but we now have to figure this out because, I don't know what it is right now. I have it. I found it. Oh, my gosh. It's holding a whole bunch of things right now because it's okay. I don't know. So it's one of these things like, you see them and people play them. I don't know if you'll be able to pick up the sound. I'll try, but, you hit it, I guess you're supposed to hold it and then you hit it like that. And then you can go around it. Like, people play these things. I have no idea how to do it. It sits on my table and it's here in the studio, and it has stuff in it that I put out of my pocket so that they're not heard on the recording. And I never take it out. And I forget that it's there until we're recording again. But, yes. Thank you. Now I know where some of that stuff's been that I've been looking for. I appreciate that, stell. I don't know how to take steps out of Silicon Valley. Like, I don't know how to recover what's happened in the past couple of years. Those that don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. So we've got to learn something from it. What can we learn from the Silicon Valley tragedy?
>> Speaker B:Yeah. And I think we've barely scratched the surface.
>> Speaker A:Right?
>> Speaker B:There was a conversion of Twitter to X the FTX scandal, attempts to bank TikTok. Right. It seems we are hell bent on repeating mistakes. We can try, though, to be more diligent as employees, certainly as investors, and vote with our wallets. Don't support companies that are built for greed instead of need.
>> Speaker A:I do think that a lot of this was just plain old fashioned american greed. It's not even sexier than that. I think, the pandemic, it was a perfect storm of opportunity that was addressed by greed in that particular area. Right? We have a bunch of smart people. We have a lot of investor capital. We have an uncommon event with the pandemic that completely changed consumer buying behavior. We have money that is practically free from the banks with super low interest rates. And there are those who founded companies during that time frame that did well. And some of those companies are still here because they solved problems and they employed people and they ran responsible businesses. And then you have this group that overinflated their workforce, over inflated their valuations, and, in some cases, the most tragic cases, had no business model to speak of, but just said AI or blockchain or threw something else out there that sounded really fun and sexy and got people excited about it. And at the end of the day, it was all just nothing.
>> Speaker B:can I get slightly political?
>> Speaker A:You can get 100% political if you want. I don't give a shit. Oh, I'm going to give a shoot. I don't give a shoot. I don't give a shoot. Dang it. I ruined it for us. We were so close to not, we said for this particular topic, because we're so close to this topic, we're not going to swear, we're not going to allow ourselves to evoke emotion into this topic. We're going to be factual. We're going to be like reporters. And we get so flipping close. And I say the s word.
>> Speaker B:You could have played it off.
>> Speaker A:I know, but it was so close. Dang. Yes. All right.
>> Speaker B:Okay. So I'm just going to throw this out there. I'm not saying I believe it 100%, but it does make you wonder when you're over inflating salaries, for example, because that's lucrative, attractive. And then we did that episode on how some of these organizations are Cultish because they love bomb you and say, oh, you're going to solve everything.
>> Speaker A:So glad to have you.
>> Speaker B:That work here, they haven't solved crap, and they haven't solved crap because you're changing the strategy every week, every week, every day. Like the new person with this history, all of a sudden they're given an incredible amount of, salary and they're love bombed. And then it falls by the wayside. But on a macro scale, quasi political opinion is, I wonder if it's to affect small businesses, because now with these smart people that have had a huge salary spike, how can small businesses compete? How can they compete with giving employees who think now that they're worth so much more, how can they compete and hire this good talent? Now, you could argue that the smart person that still needs a job is willing to take less, but not without feeling a little slighted, more than a little. So I just think this is, insidious.
>> Speaker A:Crappy. I would love to put my, tinfoil conspiracy hat on and think that somehow this was planned. I think it's simpler than that. I will tell you the competition of small businesses, because all of those that have left that had been that soured by it, great portion of them chose to start their own business, and you are seeing an influx. There is plenty out there that someone could google and say, how many laid off employees started their own business? You'd be amazed at the numbers there because eventually you get to a point where you're like, I'm tired of trading my time and my talent to be somebody's pawn in a chess game. I don't get to even see the board. I look at the comment about recruiting people. Now, you talk about love bombing. When you're in the recruitment stage, when you're interviewing for a company, you're doing your best. You are putting your best self out there, but so are they. They want to hire you. And, there's, oh, my gosh, the smiling HR person is like, hi, we've got your offer letter out to you. Oh, we're so excited to have you. Oh, my gosh. We're so excited. Oh, my gosh. It should be in your email today. Oh, my gosh, we're so happy. Oh, we're so glad. Blah, blah, blah, blah. All of the love bombing that happens, okay? Not just the HR person, and I'm not picking on HR. Everyone thinks I pick on HR. I don't. HR personnel, by and large, there are bad apples, but there's bad apples in every role. And again, we're not here on this podcast. Quick reminder, we talk about the bad stuff here. We're not here to say all, ah, hr people are. Shidy almost did it again.
>> Speaker B:Yes.
>> Speaker A:We're here to say that there are those that are and those that are cause toxic environments. They contribute to the problem. HR itself is not your labor board. It is not your advocate. As an employee. By and large, they are there for the company. It doesn't mean that they're all evil people. There are some great people who work in HR. I know some that are great. And I will name them another time just because I want to get their permission first. but there are lots of people in HR that work their tails off to help the culture and do what they can, and they're often up against a brick wall to do that. This is not about that. But what I am saying is that love bombing is part of that. And, as I don't know how I know, I couldn't do it. I could not be a recruiter for one of these firms. Find a candidate, get a candidate into the process, navigate them through the process, get the offer letter extended, have them leave a job that was there. They were happy, potentially, or even if they were unhappy. It paid the bills. At least it was there. Have them leave that job to join this company and within weeks to be laid off. How do you not know? Because it's not like you interview and like, okay, great. You sound great. Did you want to start tomorrow? That's not how interviews go. You have background checks. You have all the stuff that goes through. In some cases, we did at our last company. We're given a contract to read, to understand before we accepted our offers. it's not an instant process. How do you go through that process only to lay someone off a few weeks after or a few months after you hire them?
>> Speaker B:It's lack of communication.
>> Speaker A:I tell you, it's lack of everything. It's lack of communication, lack of strategy. Lack of management oversight, lack of everything. Because you cannot be at a place that you are so in tune with what the market needs that you've got to hire these people to meet that need. Oh, yeah, we don't need it anymore. And tell me that you have a handle on your business, your customers needs, your processes, your programs, even where your deficiencies are. You are not here for a company. You're here to get the next whale to come in and give you a big fat check is what you're looking for. And those people who left jobs, who dedicated themselves to you, who bought into the dream that you sold them, are left crushed. And here's the thing, as I say these words, I know that the people who did that don't give a flying fig. Ha.
>> Speaker B:You did it, huh?
>> Speaker A:Don't give a flying fig about any of that. Think that that's just how business works. There are going to be some casualties, there's going to be some collateral. And that's why some of these people have said, I'm kind of tired of that game. I'm just going to start my own business and be my own employer, where I'm just not going to be that person, I'm not going to be that bosshole. And you get to that point because when you are a good employee, you are loyal to your employer and you want to make the place better, especially when you're dealing with, like in this case, and I know a lot of this was going on in the valley at the time, we're going to give you options. I mean, that's a game changer for a lot of people. So you're dangling this carrot of, hey, you're going to be, I mean, think about people who had options at Amazon. Think about people who had options at meta. I mean, you put yourself in that mind frame saying, God, this could be that, and then you're cut. I mean, it doesn't make any sense. But if I can tell all of the 280 od thousand people that were affected in this industry and layoffs specific to tech in the US and companies that have a heavy us presence during, 2022 and 2023, if I could tell you all something, it's this. It is not your fault. You were not the problem. The impostor syndrome is a real thing, and I get it. But it is not your fault if the leadership was not there with the right strategy and the right plan, investor dollars can help you get started and help you grow. But it's not supposed to help you run your day to day if you need investor money to run your day to day, your model is broken, your pricing is broken, something is broken. It's usually the people in the C suite that are broken. And we have seen some of that firsthand. We know. But at the end of the day, you got to know that it wasn't your fault. And I know a lot of people there are still hurting. There are still people trying to find jobs that were laid off in 2022 and in 2023. And again, there's still layoffs occurring even in the early days of 2024. And it's not our economy, folks. That's not what's driving this. Not holistically, anyway. The only thing that's driving what's going on right now is there is a lack of investor capital, because investors like, we're kind of tired of losing billions. So we're just going to pause on any of your stuff for now. It angers me because I know a lot of people were hurt, deeply, financially, emotionally. It's hard to get out from around that. But the people that, did that to them don't even care. They just don't care. They say they care.
>> Speaker B:What do we know?
>> Speaker A:What the hell do we know? We're just people who care. Exactly. The people who make those decisions, when companies make those kind of cuts, they look at how much money they can save by making those kind of cuts. So it's your salary more than your performance. Sorry. If you're in a critical area and they need you, they'll keep you. But candidly, it's your salary. That's what makes the difference. If they need to save half a million dollars and your salary, or a million, or a million or 10 million, whatever the number is, that's salary, and you could be one of the best performers there. It does not make you immune. And that's the part about the workplace loyalty that we also talked about, right. Is when your employer is not loyal to you in all respects in a toxic workplace. And the sooner you can identify those red flags, the sooner you can put yourself first, because you're not going to fix some of that. And that's important to know and understand. It's not just one event or one discussion. When you start to see this accumulation of red flags, like, okay, so what are we doing today? So that's our model now. Okay, so what am I supposed to do? That is a red flag. That is not normal. If it wasn't normal where you worked before or anywhere in your career, why would it be normal? It's not normal. It is an issue. You need to seriously look out for yourself. And a lot of people have decided, I'm just going to look out for myself, period. And just start my own. Start my own. And not, all new businesses succeed, but some do. And, if you are starting your own business and you're listening to this and you're afraid, look, it's scary to run. we're entrepreneurs, too. It's terrifying sometimes. But I'll tell you what, if you continue to pursue it and you do the right things, it works and you're going to be a success. And we know that firsthand. So I had to say that because I know that despite all of this, I know that the people at Moose poop who were behind some of that, if they heard me even say that review, in their minds, they're already addressing the answer for why that person just was a stupid employee, or that person was just someone trying, what do they call that? a grievance or something? I forget the term, but Moose poop had lots of those reviews. Lots and lots of those reviews. So anyway, for sure, I think we need to leave it there for now. But we welcome input from our listeners on this and other industry events that tie to toxic behaviors. Send us your stories, ideas, love notes, hate mail, whatever. We'll read it all to the teabag@toxictroom.com.
>> Speaker B:And as always, find us on x instagram, LinkedIn, your mom's house.
>> Speaker A:Your mom's house. Wow. You can support the podcast directly, see our show notes, or indirectly by engaging with one of our affiliate partners. Check out our blog@toxictroom.com, slash blog, for wonderful offers and tantalizing tidbits of additional content.
>> Speaker B:And TikTok. We are still on TikTok.
>> Speaker A:We are. One final note. Support the Workplace Psychological Safety act. Cyberbullying is illegal. We all know that cyberbullying is illegal, but it's still legal for your employer to bully you. And we can stop that together. And we'll have links for that in the show notes. Peace out, peeps. Bye. Sadly.
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