Toxic Tearoom
The tea is piping hot! Get ready to clutch your pearls! This is the podcast where you can bring your break room whispers to the world!
This is a safe space to share stories of bossholes and bitchiness, of toxicity and drama, all while understanding the underlying issues that feed these toxic environments. You will laugh. You will relate. You will understand- and you will survive. You are not alone!
Your hosts are two dynamic executives who take the issues seriously- but not themselves. Join them and a variety of top-tier guests as we discuss the brutality of these issues in an honest, raw, funny, and inclusive way.
Send your stories to
TheTeabag@ToxicTearoom.com. We promise to protect the innocent and will purposefully keep all stories anonymous.
Toxic Tearoom
Gossipy Goose and Slander Gander
After a year (!) of providing content on toxic work environments, your hosts had an epiphany.
Toxic behaviors are the cause of toxic work environments; toxic people exhibit toxic behaviors. Toxic people don't leave work and become different people- so what happens to the families, friends, and communities infected with toxicity? It was worth adding chairs to the table to spill even more tea.
Don't worry- we are not abandoning the workplace; rather, we are expanding beyond it to include topics such as financial abuse, toxic traits, and even toxicity in religion (pearl clutch warning!). We want to provide a holistic view of the behaviors that bleed into our lives so that you are better equipped to handle these people when they cross your path- including at work.
This episode expands upon gossip and slander- a topic covered in season 2- from a unique perspective. Your hosts share personal stories of slander and the impact of those experiences, how they overcame those issues, and how to move peace forward.
https://www.toxictearoom.com
Thanks for listening to Toxic Tearoom! Follow us on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, X and Patreon. Are you in a toxic workplace? Tell us about it at TheTeabag@ToxicTearoom.com. We promise anonymity, empathy, and a healthy dose of humor.
Hi, Stell.
>> Speaker B:Hi. Hi. So glad we're back. So glad we're back.
>> Speaker A:I mean, we've been gone for a bit.
>> Speaker B:Yep. It's been a minute.
>> Speaker A:It's been a minute.
>> Speaker B:As those youngsters say, those Gen Z's.
>> Speaker A:That we love so much. Our spirit animals. I wish we could tell our audience that our absence was due to the fact that Stella and I were sitting know lounge chairs in the French Riviera, enjoying ourselves. But it was not the case, unfortunately. Unfortunately. Next time, I hope so. I wish we could say that our absence was due to know. Really incredible event that we would love to share with you. But it was not. No.
>> Speaker B:We've just been so busy.
>> Speaker A:Incredibly busy. Our business has kept us very busy. We had a lot of conflicting deadlines. And candidly, while we try to record a lot of episodes in advance, it's hard to do that when you have no time to record. And that's just where it was. If this was a few months ago, you wouldn't have even noticed the difference. We would just keep scheduling out the episodes that were recorded and move on. And so we apologize for our absence. We're really sorry we're back. But our absence also allowed us to have some conversations about where to take this podcast. And if you follow us on LinkedIn, you saw a little thing saying, huge announcement coming soon, and today's that day. Now, the definition of it is. The definition of huge might be subjective, right, ladies? But anyway, here's the thing. Here's the thing. Took you a minute. Take that coffee cup and have another sip. Let's do that together. Ready, Stella? Let's take another sip of our coffee right now. Here we go. Here we go.
>> Speaker B:Cheers.
>> Speaker A:Brain juice. Okay. Sorry about that. Sorry about that. but we had some time while we were doing all of this work and being very busy, we thought a lot about where this podcast has been. Now, by the time this episode airs, we will pretty much be at the ides of March, kind of right in that same time frame, which really marks a year for us, a year of doing this. And it's been crazy. We have met some, incredible people. We've received so many stories, and comments from our audience. We've reached listeners around the world, which have been incredible. That's been amazing.
>> Speaker B:That's been so cool.
>> Speaker A:And the validation that we've received from what we went through and the validation we're giving others is why we did this in the first place. We wanted to share what we learned about our events at our toxic employer and what that did to us personally. And we wanted to make something positive from it because it was so negative and so detrimental to us personally, physically, professionally, and knowing that we've helped people is the whole reason we started this podcast. But in the year that we've been around, and all the varieties of the topics we've covered around toxic work environments, and some of the fun we've had with our October specials, which, holy cow, I can't even think about that right now. Our Christmas party specials, we have some of that fun because you just can't walk around angry all the time. And we, need to laugh. We do. We need to laugh. And when you're entertained, you continue to listen. And when you continue to listen, we hope that we're bringing you something of value. But in the year, there's been a couple of things that have occurred. First off, there's been an uptick in podcast in general. It seems everybody has a podcast. and that's not bad. But we have seen additional podcasts in the space focused on toxic work environments. We've listened to them. They're great podcasts. We see them on LinkedIn. They're good people. And we also have seen a kind of change in the dynamic, especially with the return to office that's being pushed versus. When we started, there was still a considerable amount of folks that were either working from home or hybrid. And we've seen an uptick in unfortunate events tied to workplace violence, tied to oppressive work environments, unfortunately, even suicides. And that makes us sad. So, when we thought about, where do we take the podcast? Because we don't want to be irrelevant, and we want to ensure that what we're delivering to you is worthwhile, right? That's number one for Stella and I, is the content has to be worthwhile. Even if it's just silly content to make you laugh, that's worth it. If it's really valuable content to make you think, or it gives you a resource, or it gives you some comfort that somebody else lives this, then that's what we want. And we looked and said, are we really covering what we need to cover? And if we were to alter our format so that we can reach more people, so that we can dig deeper into some of these behaviors, does it leave a vacuum for people that need exactly what we started our podcast on? And so after some soul searching, while we were busy with our businesses, and after some discussion, we said, okay, there's other podcasts that can help with the very specific topic of workplace, of, toxic work environments of ridiculous bosses, of everything that we've talked about in this podcast. So that vacuum doesn't exist. There's other podcasts that are high quality that we encourage you guys to listen to. We can even list some in the show notes. And if that's what you really want to focus on, we think that's there, and we're still going to cover those things, too. But we said, at the root of all of that is humans, and humans behavior. So the behavior of being a narcissist doesn't start when you walk in the door of, work and end when you get in your car to leave. You're a narcissist. So it's impacting more than just the people you work with or work for you. It's going to impact your family, your friends, your circle of influence. Same thing with psychopathic bosses. They don't stop being, displaying psychopathic behavior out of the boardroom. They're still like that and on and on and on. And we said, perhaps as we looked into some of these adjacent topics, maybe we could expand into the various behaviors and trends that we see, like, financial abuse and, familial relationships and things along those lines, because those behaviors that are toxic will still bleed into the workplace in one way or another. So we're not abandoning the topic, but we're simply expanding to, let's talk about humans, let's talk about how those behaviors exist. And so that, is where we're taking the podcast now. We certainly hope that you stay with us, because we're still going to cover those things. We're still going to be our silly selves. Because remember, folks, we don't take ourselves seriously. We take the issue seriously. But we've had some great conversations that are going to be in the coming episodes that we really believe will add value and really need to be explored deeper than they have been. And certainly we've never touched upon them in those lights on this podcast. So that's where we're taking the direction of the podcast. That's announcement number one. Or uno, I was going to say, or numero uno.
>> Speaker B:Yeah. And if I jump in, I do want to say, we're going to talk today about slander. And one of the things that helped us morph into an expansion of the topics holistically is that slander doesn't just affect you in the workplace, because you go home with it. And especially in a case where you are let go, and other people that remained in a place of workplace and they're still saying everything's your fault, for example, you still live with that often. So it is something that can work within and surrounding a workplace, but it is a much bigger issue when you compare it to human or human life, like Roberta alluded to. so I think this is a natural evolution of the toxic tea room. And since me and Roberta love speaking about these systemic, know, humanistic type of, behaviors, while we're not psychologists, we are just calling out what we see and we hope that by expanding, we're really directing the communication towards the individual who's going through whatever experience it is. So, just wanted to add.
>> Speaker A:Yeah, and guys, we're going to be touching on some pretty provocative things. I mean, there's things that we're going to do episodes on that you may think, I can't believe they're talking about that. Well, we're going to talk about it because in our view, there's no harm in having the discussion. The harm is in not having the discussion. There's nothing that's too taboo. We're going to talk about things that harm other people, and we want to focus in particular systemic areas that harm other people, because until you fix the system, you don't fix the behavior. so as we continue to always do, we're going to have frank discussions, we're going to have guests, we're still going to do those things. We're going to have silly episodes. Sometimes we just want to laugh, and we hope you laugh with us. We're going to have episodes that candidly are going to be. I don't want to say Racy, because Racy is such a weird word. Some of them are going to be pretty heavy, some of them are going to be pretty heavy, but they need to be discussed like we need to have the conversation. And it's not like we've ever had gloves on, but yeah, the gloves are off now. We just want to be candid. We want to have frank discussions and we want everyone listening. That is going through a tough time, whether it's in personal or professional life. There is another side to it. so the second announcement that we're going to make is, for those of you that know me or have followed me, I do write. Stella also writes. I'm just beating her to the punch on this one. She'll have her own eventually. but I thought it would be worthwhile to share my personal story in more detail of how I have dealt with toxic work environments and specifically the worst one I was ever in. And what I've learned from it and everything that we've shared on this podcast, to a degree. Some of the great advice from some of our incredible guests and how it's helped me personally, and I wanted to put that into a book. the book's title is emerge. It's not out yet. I promise you I'll let you know when it's out. But it's going to be available, on Amazon. It's going to be, an electronic book format, and then I will be recording an audible for it, of course, because audible podcast, you're listening to it.
>> Speaker B:Why not?
>> Speaker A:So it will be available in both formats, and I expect that'll be out probably within the next three months or so. If it's sooner, I'll let everyone know. but it's not a long book, but it's essentially a handbook of how you can relate to it, expand your thought process, seek the right resources, but most importantly, it's called emerge for a reason. There's a quote that was originally attributed to, I believe, mexican protest and translated into English, it means, when they buried us, they didn't realize we were seeds. So when you are being buried by all of the stress, all of the oppression, and there is real oppression in this world, and the workplace is one tiny capsule of that oppression, and that's why we have this podcast. We want to avoid those behaviors in those environments. But when you're buried, understand that you're not a corpse, you're a seed, and you can emerge. And that's. Thus the name of the book is emerge. It's, getting to the other side of that. It's meant to be a practical playbook for that. So thank you very much, Stella, for allowing me the chance to plug the upcoming book. Hope it will be of value to everyone, and, yeah, sustainable. We don't need to print copies, okay? It's in an Eve book format. Download it to your reader. If you don't have a reader, download the audible. Listen to it. We're trying to be sustainable here, folks, but with all of that, and thank you for indulging that. We want to get you guys all caught up. Our audience is very important to us. We care about you guys, genuinely. So thank you for allowing us to share where we've been, what we've been doing, and, no, we're not going anywhere. We're still right here. So those of you that listen for the sake of waiting to hear till we're done. Sorry. Guess you're going to keep listening because we're here we're staying, baby. and today's topic is, as Stella alluded to earlier, we've covered gossiping before, we've covered slander before, but we're taking a slightly different approach to those topics and not only discussing, once again, the pain that it causes in the workplace, but to Stella's point, how it follows you and what you can do about it in what we have called gossipy goose and slander Gander. They sound like twins, which is unfortunate for me and Stella. You know why?
>> Speaker B:No. Do tell, do tell.
>> Speaker A:Oh, come on. Okay, all right, okay. Don't come at me for this, okay? I'm sorry, but everybody has their quirks. This is one of mine. There are some things in life that freak me out. Those who know me understand. Bugs that crawl freak me out. Spiders, ants, whatever. I can't have them go outside. Stay outside if you're in my house, it's war. I don't put up with it. I don't like insects. Crawling insects gross me out. The other thing, ironically, that identical twins give me the creeps. I said it. I said it. If you are a twin, an identical twin, I'm not talking fraternal twins. That's just someone who's efficient. That is a mom who is efficient. Okay, that's it. She's just maximizing time and space. Identical twins. Oh, my God, forgive me, arguably should not exist. All right, so here's how I look at identical twins, all right? We don't know why a fertilized egg would split into two. We don't know why. It just happens. Allegedly just. I don't know. It can happen. So you have the same human being split into two, kind of like King Solomon, only in the womb. Right. I'll just split the baby now I make two babies.
>> Speaker B:Yes.
>> Speaker A:that alone bothers me because it's not supposed to be that way. But have you ever heard those stories about twins that are separated at birth, and then they meet each other for the first time decades later, and they start comparing notes, and they've led remarkably similar lives. So I just read about, this set of twins. I think they call them the Jim twins. I don't know if that's because they're both named Jim. I have no idea. But they were separated at birth. They met at age 39. So damn near four decades of lives that they've lived. Okay? Both of them had married and divorced women named Linda. Both of them had remarried women named Betty Coinka Dink. Perhaps both of them had sons named James Allen, spelled a l. L A n, which is not typical spelling of Allen. Both of them did that. Mind you, they'd never met. Both of them worked in security. Both of them had the same make and model vehicle. And the part that threw me, that made me realize that I'm right about how I feel about identical twins. Both of them had dogs. They both named their dog the same name. Ask me the name of the dog. Toy. Toy. Okay, so. I'm sorry. Look, they're the same person. And on my husband's side of the family, one of his cousins has, a set of identical twin girls. And they're beautiful girls and they're sweet girls, but they creep me out. I said it. It's not like I don't love them. They're family. But when they finish each other's sentences or when they pretend to be each other, there was a story that I'll share with you where, I'm meeting them. I'm calling one by one name. And she said, no, I'm the other one. And then the other one walks up and I call her by her name. She goes, no, I'm this one. And then they both look at me and say in unison, can't you tell us apart? No. And stop that. Stop that. No. You know, the Mandela effect. Okay.
>> Speaker B:Yes. That's when you remember a false.
>> Speaker A:Yeah.
>> Speaker B:And it's like it's a false memory.
>> Speaker A:And collectively, we all have some of these same false memories.
>> Speaker B:Yeah.
>> Speaker A:And I promise this relates to twins. And then we'll move past it because I'm going to have to. I won't be able to because I'm already in full body shivers right now. M. I'm not even kidding. Again, no hate, it's not your fault you're born a twin. It's just. I don't know. So there's a theory out there that says, and this is an extreme theory. I'll just say that. So if you've got a tinfoil complex, you might want to just skip ahead because this will keep you up at night. If you're into conspiracy theories, this will keep you up at night. There is a theory that. And this is extreme, none of us are alive right now, that there was an event that happened that wiped us all off the earth and that our collective memories remember how it was. And right now, we're living in some altered dimension of simply consciousness. And that's why we see things. We're like, okay, but that's not how I remember it. Now, that is so far fetched that if anyone is listening to this go, oh, that explains it. Don't. Just don't. That's not a thing, okay? We're all.
>> Speaker B:You see something in active life that you don't. That you say, that's not how I like the Matrix.
>> Speaker A:Like the Matrix. So essentially we're all human batteries or something. So if you think of the mandela effect and you see, know, fruit, of the loom says it's never had a cornucopia. And then people are like, what's this label then? Doesn't that a cornucopia? No, that's a horn of plenty. Whatever. All of the little things that we all remember differently. I look at identical twins and say, if there was ever tangible proof of a glitch in the matrix, it's identical twins. Yeah, because you shouldn't be. I'm not saying they don't need to be alive. Please, again, don't come at me. I need you to understand it's not about the individuals, but the sheer existence of, two people that are genetically identical should not be because we don't know the mechanism that allows that to happen. It just happens. There's theories that it runs in families. There's theories about this, but we don't really know. And then all of a sudden, you have one fertilized egg that becomes two, or, God forbid, more people, because there are identical triplets. To me, it supports kind of, if you wanted to get crazy, which we're not going to do that today because this is not that kind of episode. There's plenty of podcasts out there to explore this kind of bullshit if you want to do that. That's not what this is about. But that's why twins creep me out, because I don't like it. Not that I don't like them. Again, there's no hate here. I'm not asking anybody to round them up and say, you can't be here. No, stop it. There's no hate for them. The very process of a glitch in the matrix so severe that it makes two human beings out of one event. I don't know, creep me out. That's all I'm saying. Okay, but these would be fraternal twins. These would be gossipy goose, which is a girl, and slander gander, which is a boy. So these are not identical twins. So everything I just talked to is irrelevant when it comes to gossipy Goose and slander Gander. But since Stella asked, I wanted to fill you in on my neuroses about twins.
>> Speaker B:Yes. So interesting. So interesting. I, mean, everybody does have their. I'll tell you real quick. Mine, I get the heebie GB's when I see a tree coming out of water. Like, if I can't see the. Like, just even talking about it. My skin.
>> Speaker A:You cannot go to Louisiana and see.
>> Speaker B:Those trees exactly like I. Oh, gosh.
>> Speaker A:I never knew that about you. And you should have probably never told me.
>> Speaker B:I'll find identical.
>> Speaker A:Man, I can look at pictures of identical twins, but when I talk to them, it's like, okay, you guys seem great. I got to go. Before you start answering each other's sentences again, I just can't. Oh, my God. Anyway, so now that you realize your hosts are crazy.
>> Speaker B:so gossip. We talked about gossip, right, in a previous episode, and obviously people gossip. they all want to talk about so and so having an episode yesterday. And some is not malevolent. Some is just. You want to just communicate with people and talk about what happened. Some is, I would dare say, out of genuine concern, while others is just that you're bored and you have nothing else to talk about. which I would say most of it is probably, but a, gossip is, very different than slander. And we kind of wanted to focus on slander today because, as I alluded to earlier, it does follow you home. It's not like you can turn off slander, because it's being said about you and it is false. I mean, that would be the definition of why it's slander. Otherwise, it's just truth. And I think, Roberta, when you and I were talking about this previously, the truth is what fixes slander. unfortunately, in a lot of cases of slander, you may not have the immediate ability to defend yourself or to say the truth of what actually happened, number one. And number two, slander becomes very insidious when other people keep talking about it, when they don't know the truth either. So we kind of wanted to touch on those two topics, one being, how much it affects somebody when they can't defend themselves because it's just this gnawing thing. but also that the people that continue to spread like a telephone game, a kid, and it keeps morphing into this other story, you're just as culpable.
>> Speaker A:I agree.
>> Speaker B:Those two aspects, right? Those two aspects.
>> Speaker A:And like we said in our previous coverage of this topic, the irony is not lost on us that we literally spill the tea on this podcast. The irony is not lost to us that there is a part of our show that is deliberate gossip we get it. But, if you notice, we don't name names. We try to hide anything that would be identifiable, unless it was something in a news story where that's already out there, where somebody has said something or done something. And usually we limit that to corporations versus individuals. And we don't do that because we're afraid of legal action. We do that because we want to protect people. That unless we know 100% that something is true and irrefutable. And even then, we don't say a name because there are families attached to that person, there are careers attached to that person. And even if somebody's completely despicable, we're not trying to harm their family by outing them by name. We know that some people can recognize others, but that's okay because you all witness the same thing we witnessed, or you recognize that type of behavior in your own lives. We've talked about things where people will write and say, oh, that had to be about this and such company. We're like, actually, it literally wasn't. Which always tickles us. Like, not. No. are we anonymizing too much? Because that's not even the same industry. But we intentionally try to keep things not cloak and dagger, but there are people attached to even the worst behavior that, the boss hole who made my life hell still had a family, right? And we're trying not to have any shrapnel, and we're essentially not trying to make the issue worse. So we're calling out the behaviors. We call them out viciously. We're gritty on this podcast because those behaviors are horrible and negative and needs to stop. But we recognize that. We gossip because, of course we do, because everybody does. But the fact that we take the time and the precaution not to name names, not to put in pseudonyms, not to do an anagram on the name so that you could figure out exactly who we're talking about. We don't do that because, a, that's not necessary, because we're talking about behaviors versus individuals, and b, we don't want to harm the innocent. We do want to protect the innocent. We don't want to slander, because slander, even if it's done in a quick thing and we're going to share some examples of that from our personal lives, can have direct impact in so many ways. And if you don't understand what you're doing when those words leave your mouth, or if you're stupid enough candidly to put it in writing, which I call stupid, slander the technical term, obviously, is libel, but I call it stupid slander because you're literally going to put that in writing. You're going to send a text like that. You're going to post something like that. You're going to send an email like that, you idiot. Don't do that. Don't do that. You're an idiot. You're an idiot. You're just begging to be sued. The truth is that getting any type of benefit from that, though, is actually quite hard. And we're going to cover that where even if you have been slandered against and you've had yourself in a position where you lose clients or you lose your job or you lose an opportunity for promotion, or outside of the workplace where it causes marital strife, maybe you lose your spouse, where it puts your kids in a position where they are bullied at school because of some slanderous story they heard from their parents about you, and it transfers to your kids and other areas of your life. It can be so devastating. But it's so hard to win those cases in court because the burden is on the plaintiff. These are not criminal charges. They're civil charges. And we're going to talk a little bit about that, because don't fear. I mean, while you may not win a court, most of those don't have to go to trial. Most of those settle, particularly when we're talking about an employee making those comments. So we're going to talk about that. So do you want to share a story first, Stella, or would you like me?
>> Speaker B:I won't go into too much detail to protect myself. No, I'm just kidding.
>> Speaker A:It's okay to protect yourself. It's okay to protect yourself.
>> Speaker B:No, actually, I am not worried about protecting myself because, in my reality, I really did not do anything wrong. There was, at a place of employment, there was a lady there who, for whatever reason, well, she was all over the place and always wanted to kind of control what I was doing. And when I put my foot down and said, this is my job, you can focus on your job, she went around saying that I was a recluse, that I was dangerous. And that went out and people started saying I was a recluse and I was dangerous. I did leave that place of employment, and the story kept morphing that I had shown up to the building trying to shoot people. I mean, it just became completely ludicrous. And so I felt so hurt, so just enraged almost, because nothing could be further from the truth. I did keep to myself because I wanted to, avoid this person who was always. I was setting my boundary, so I was setting a boundary. And I did stop just chitchatting with everybody to focus on my job. I showed up, did my job, and went home. I wasn't mean to anybody. If someone talked to me, I talked back. I just was completely civil with everybody. but it morphed into this idea that somehow I was dangerous being a mom of three kids and just doing my job. So I understand how much that can bother somebody. luckily, I reacted in a good way as far as I would just write. I would write because I was so angry. I didn't want to get into a yelling match. Because that doesn't help or confront anybody. Because what does that help?
>> Speaker A:It would actually confirm what they were saying about you if you did that. Exactly.
>> Speaker B:yeah, you're trapped. And it is a feeling like you've completely lost control. But there is another side. I decided to surrender to the fact that I cannot control what someone's willing to believe about me. But if anyone was actually paying attention, they would know that, hey, that doesn't sound right. And if anyone actually really cared, they could come ask me, right? So I kind of surrendered it. And after a year or so, a lot of people did reach back out to me. and just like, I saw one lady at a supermarket, and she was like, oh, hi, Stella. And I knew she was part of the people that were, continuing the slander. but I wasn't malicious. And to each his own. If you are willing to just believe something that somebody else says so, yeah, that's my quick little story.
>> Speaker A:I think that is a really great example of what we're talking about. Right. Because you were put in a position based on someone's opinion, because you weren't as social as they perceived you should be. So why aren't you as social? Well, you're a recluse, which means you are dangerous. You could hurt us. And, to let that take hold so that anytime you're in a meeting now, that's how you're being judged. And walking out to your car, that's how you're being judged. And to have that, that's the thing is where you're in a position where it makes you angry, you can't say anything because then you're confirming. Right? Like we talked about. But by being silent, you're also confirming, because that's the narrative. And I have found when people are sold on a particular narrative, they find a way to twist whatever you do to support that narrative. and they exclude facts that would dispute what they're saying, and they blow up things that support what they're saying. It's intentional and it's malicious. And that's what we're really talking about today. The piece that I will push back on you on is when you said they could come and ask me, honestly, in your case, what are they going to come and ask? Hey, Stella, are you dangerous, Stella, are you building bombs in your house at, like, are you a mass murderer? Do you have bodies of people in your backyard? I mean, at the end of the day, it's a weird question to ask, but candidly, if my personal life has nothing to do with, the way we interact in our relationships, right? So if we're coworkers, my personal life has nothing to do with my relationship as your coworker. If we're going to church together, and my relationship and my personal life has nothing to do with us in church. It's none of your business. I think as human beings, especially when we hear something salacious, we have this need to be satisfied. Like, everything that's going on with, Kate Middleton right now, because she hasn't been seen since Christmas, right? So there's all these conspiracy theories, and it's spiraling out of control now. She's a member of the royal family. She's a public figure. She should expect that people are going to do what they do. But it's kind of along those lines where if she is legitimately recovering from significant surgery, she has her health to put first. She's a mother of three. her first responsibility is to herself, not to the crown, and not to people that want to verify she's alive. But at the same time, you are a public figure. I don't know, Zoom call, maybe let people know that you are alive, because it's out of control at this point. But anything that happens, like, there was a picture published of her and her mother in a car, and they're like. People are like, oh, no, that's not her m. No, that's not her. That's her sister, Pippa. She can't win for losing, either. It's like, if she were to go out there and wave, they're like, nope, not her. Wave. So people want some salacious thing in their lives, and I think it's because you look for those things when you don't have anything else to focus on, which is sad, but that's kind of human behavior. so true in your particular case, I can only imagine how that made you feel, because you didn't want to be social. Like, you're there to do your job, you're there to focus on your job. And by simply focusing on your job and being a professional now you're dangerous.
>> Speaker B:Yeah.
>> Speaker A:So I have a story. Okay.
>> Speaker B:Yeah, I have a story.
>> Speaker A:Mine is a little more overt now that yours wasn't overt because you're, ra. She's dangerous. I think there's a song of that. I'm going to have to find it out. See, if we do a Spotify episode, we'll have to find a song about how dangerous you are. yes. So mine goes back, quite a ways, in my career, but I had a particularly good sales year. And by particularly good, I was slaying it. I don't have another word for it. I was killing it. I signed dozens of customers that year. I had signed the largest contract that my employer had ever seen. It was worth in the billions with a b. I was just knocking it out of the park. I was crushing every metric. I was just superhuman. I don't know how to say it.
>> Speaker B:Get it.
>> Speaker A:I was getting it. I was getting it. And look, I was getting it at a cost, right? I mean, I was working 80, 90 hours a week. I was traveling from one side of the country to the other within the same week. TSA would be confused at airports because they would see me go in on a Monday and see me go right back in on a Tuesday and sometimes right back in on that Thursday of the same week. And they're like, we don't know when you're coming or going. I said, that's two of us. Two of us. They would be all confused. I was sleeping at airports sometimes just to be able to catch the flight so I wouldn't miss my flight.
>> Speaker B:Wow.
>> Speaker A:I didn't get to be with my kids that much, and I wasn't doing it just for my own personal fulfillment. I was given a task. I was achieving my task, and I don't want to get into too many details of why that is, because it would reveal who my employer was and then who this individual was that we're going to talk about. But it just was what it was. And my family was supportive of me. It was a big sacrifice on my part, but I had a really good year. I'll just leave it at that. So, we would have at the same employer conferences every year where a certain group of us would be together, and it was a large employer. So these conferences had a few thousand people in attendance sometimes, and there would be awards and whatnot, and I was being awarded for my year because nobody even came close. Nobody even came close. That's what I do. And, you know me well enough to know that awards make me feel awkward af, as the kids say, right? Because I don't like the accolades. I get embarrassed by it. I'd rather you tell me what is wrong with me so that I can improve myself than you tell me how glorious I am, because I'm not comfortable with that. But anyway, they were given award.
>> Speaker B:That is an issue.
>> Speaker A:I know it is.
>> Speaker B:We don't have.
>> Speaker A:I know it is. But you know me well enough to know I would rather not discuss it. Whatever. So our group of our sales team were kind of sitted together across two rows. So myself and some of the implementation folks on the operations side and a couple of other people were sitting in one row, and directly behind me was my boss and two of my peers. Okay. And as they had gotten done talking about me, and we were about to go to break, so I stood up to go. I was going to go get some coffee on break, and one of my peers says, loud enough for me to hear, again, I'm in the row ahead. It wasn't a whisper. And my boss was seated next to this individual, and he, loud enough for everybody to hear, said, I could have a year like Roberta does, too, if I slept with my clients.
>> Speaker B:Wow.
>> Speaker A:I literally was stunned. I was so stunned, I couldn't even retort. It shocked me to even hear that. I was at a Fortune 100 company, and something like this was said, and my boss was there, and my boss said nothing. And I was stunned. I stood there literally frozen for a minute, and then I, went to get my coffee. I came back. I was angry. Yes. I was also hurt. I was hurt because this individual was nowhere close to. I mean, this individual got to spend time with his kids while I was flying all over hell's half acre getting this stuff done. This individual got to still have his paycheck, though. He was nowhere near even quota, let alone crushing it while I was carrying the entire team's performance on my back. This individual was choosing to direct his frustration at his own performance, or lack thereof, on mine and reducing me to only having that. So it wasn't my skill. It wasn't my expertise. It wasn't my ability to bond with my clients. It wasn't my sacrifice of my time. It was reduced to sexual favors. As to why I was closing as many deals as I was closing and as a woman, that crushed me, because I know we have listeners that are male who understand that women still struggle. Even today in the year of our Lord 2024, we are not paid as much as our male counterparts. Even if we perform better, we are not recognized for, ourselves. Even when we are the best in our field, we still have those struggles today. Today. And the easiest way to oppress a woman is to accuse her of that. The easiest way to wipe away everything that a woman has done is to reduce it. and by the way, I was cute. This was a while ago, all right? I was cute. Nothing whatever, but it never happened. Nothing close like that happened. I was disgusted by it. I was a married woman and a mother of three, and I've got this tool making that comment, not just as an aside, like going home and making a comment like that to his wife or something, or friends that don't work with us. Where, what are you going to do? Ah, at our function. And felt brazen enough next to our boss. And I was livid. I was so livid and I was crushed by it. So the next day, I told my boss, and I said, so what are you doing to that person with the comment? And my boss was one of those that hated conflict. I'm just going to say it. Just hated it. Wanted everybody to be kumbaya. Hated, conflict. Hated, hated, hated, hated it. And it's not that he was.
>> Speaker B:A lot of people are like.
>> Speaker A:And it's not like he was a bad person. he was great. I mean, I still consider him a friend, but he hated conflict and something of that level of conflict that he did not want to play that game. He just didn't, He kind of wanted everybody to just be better, which don't we all. But I told him, I said, that comment needs to be addressed. He said, blow it off. It doesn't matter. You got the award. Everyone knows you earned it. I said, I don't care that everyone knows I earned it. I care that he said it. I care that he felt that he could say it with impunity. I care that he chose to say it in front of you. And if you don't address it, that implies you agree with it. He goes, you know, I don't agree with that. You know, I don't know that. I know that. But I need him to know that that's unacceptable because it hurt me. I said, and if you won't address it, I am leaving. I'll quit. I'll quit if you don't address it, I'll quit. So you could choose to do what you want to do, but I can't control what comes out of his mouth. I can't control what you'll do, but I can control what I'll put up with. I'm not putting up with that. Not when I am sacrificing everything I'm sacrificing for this initiative you put me on. I'm crushing it. You're getting bonuses because of how hard I'm working, and this idiot who can't even close one deal this year is making a comment that freaking brash and disgusting. You need to address that, or I am no longer here. And so he talked to that person. I don't know if he wrote him up. It's none of my business. he certainly wasn't fired. He never said anything like that again, so I'm sure he told him something. But to have that happen in this day and age, that's slander, because, again, he said it openly. Now, other people. These were big rooms, right? You got to imagine this was not a meeting room. This was, like one of those ballrooms at a hotel. And he said it loud enough for me to hear. I'm in the row ahead of him. People behind him could have heard. They weren't even in our team. They were at a different division of this company. There were people that could. He could have repeated that comment over drinks, the evening events. He could have said whatever he wanted to say. And, my reputation gets a ding, and I didn't do anything to earn that other than he was jealous and petty. And that's really what we're here to discuss, is, when something like that happens, how do I do anything different than what I did? I mean, I still, to this day, feel I took the right steps. I didn't address him directly because he didn't deserve me addressing him directly. Yeah, I did not want, Because if I were to talk to him, I would have killed him. I don't know that I would have controlled my temper, because all of that anger would have come out. So I chose to address it the way I address it, which I still feel was the right way to go. But to even have the feeling that you can make a comment like that about a fellow teammate, a professional, who you've seen do her job. I was great at it. And to be spoken to that way. He knew I could have heard it. I was right there. He knew I heard it. He didn't care that I heard it. That's the problem. When, you are slandering somebody, you have to recognize that. It's like being in a gas chamber where the air is in there, and then you start to get this little bit of gas, and you're like, okay, that's stupid. The gas is there. But pretty soon, that gas infiltrates the whole room, and now you have no oxygen left to breathe. That's what slander is like in an organization. That's what it's like in the world. We've heard so many stories over time, because people are bad. They've always been bad that do this. So, over time, you hear about people being ostracized. I mean, look, Salem witch trials. None of those women were witches. But somebody, could be hysterical, point out somebody's a witch, and now she has to prove she's not a witch by essentially not drowning. Or if she drowns, oh, she drowns. So she's not a witch. Okay. Guess we were wrong about her being a witch. She's still dead, though. She's still dead, though. So, Great. She's not a witch, but she's dead, though. And that's kind of what slander does. How do you disprove slander? And by the way, should I have had to. Should I have had to take all of the people I met within the year and say, okay, so I have sworn statements from all of them. I've slept with none of them. Should I have had to do that to dispel that? And even though, I got to tell you, I believe most people thought he was full of shit because he wasn't performing. It's not like he was credible in any sense to begin with. Yeah, but if even one person thought there could possibly be a grain of truth to that, that's unacceptable, because I can't disprove it, anymore, that you could have disproven that. How do you prove you're not dangerous?
>> Speaker B:Right?
>> Speaker A:You can't disprove it.
>> Speaker B:And maybe I should be more dangerous.
>> Speaker A:Stop it. Stop it right now. Someone will write and say, I told you that bitch was dangerous. But that's the challenge of it, right? And so the reason we're bringing this up is because it does happen in the workplace. It happens outside the workplace. And how it's incredibly difficult to defend against because, let's say somebody is accusing you of something so outrageous. I'm trying to pick, some, They have an open marriage. Huh? What are you supposed to say to that? First of all, if you do or don't, it's nobody's business except you and your spouse, right?
>> Speaker B:Unless you choose to tell it.
>> Speaker A:Right? And that's your choice. But if somebody says something like that and you happen to be a member of a higher education institution or, in a church or at the PTA or any place where people feel they have the right to judge your personal life because they feel your center of morality will impact the role that they know you in, it is incredibly damaging. And how do you disprove it? How do you shut it down? Because even if you go up there, let's say we'll take that open marriage. I don't know why that popped to mind, but whatever. It just seemed appropriate. So let's just say you and your spouse stand up in front of the congregation. You're at a church. Maybe you're not the pastor. Maybe you're just, I don't know, youth pastor or something, and you and your spouse stand up and say, hey, we just want to address the rumors. We are not in an open marriage. Thank you. Good night. Please stop thinking we are. You know, there are going to be people in there. Well, of course that's what they're going to say. What are they supposed to do? Say, yeah, we're in an open marriage. Who wants to come over Thursday? We'll bring drinks, pineapples upside down. Like, who's going to say that? So that's the challenge, right? The challenge is you can't disprove it. Not to everyone's satisfaction, which lends us to. Then the next piece is, why do people need to be satisfied by it? Why do they feel the need to be satisfied by it? To what degree do you, as an individual, feel you are owed the truth about somebody else's personal life when it doesn't impact you at all? Why do you feel a need to be satisfied by anything that is none of your business? That's the truth. The saddest thing for me is that as human beings, we feel we are owed something, and we're not owed that.
>> Speaker B:Right.
>> Speaker A:You should not have had to feel, Stella, that you would have to explain to someone, I'm not a dangerous human being. I just don't like to socialize at. To prove. I should not have had to prove that I wasn't trading sexual favors for contracts, because that's ludicrous. Should not have had to prove it. And there are so many other stories of that. And when we talk about. Again, gossip. Gossip is one thing. Slander is intentionally malicious. Slander is intended to cause pain, embarrassment, shame. That's the whole point. That's the whole point. When it happens in the workplace, you are not only messing with somebody's professional career advancement, you're messing with their income, and you're messing with their psychological safety and health. When you are under that kind of stress from slander and you walk into a meeting, you don't even know if everyone in that meeting is looking at you with the same respect they did before. It puts you in a horrible place. And, let's talk about Stella, how people can be held accountable for that.
>> Speaker B:Yeah, exactly. That's where I was going to jump to. Because, first of all, make sure you're documenting. even if you're documenting a conversation, obviously, you can't record people. I don't know if that's admissible in court. but it is good to document if, God forbid, someone does stupid slander her. I do got to tell you, just this week, I was talking to a friend, and she said at work, this one guy, apparently he might be leaving the company, and one of her coworkers went to another guy and said, oh, yeah, he's checked out because he's going to go to another company. And the guy that she told sent an email saying, so and so is checked out. And with those words, and I'm like, oh, my gosh, yes. you're continuing this information that you don't even know is accurate, because the guy that said it, by the way, works at a different office.
>> Speaker A:And why would you, put yourself out there like that? Because how does it matter to you? That's the part that I'm fascinated by. Just from a behaviorist view. Right? Like, what difference does it make to you personally? What difference does it make? It's one thing if you have to carry someone's slack, but then that's not how you address it. You go to the person, say, listen, I hear you might be leaving. Is that true? Yeah, it's true. Okay. Well, just so you know, it looks like you've checked out, and that's up to you. I don't blame you and mazel tov on getting your new job or whatever, but, I can't pick up your slack for you while you're still here because it's not fair to me. So let's have a conversation about that. But if it's not impacting you, why would you even. Who cares? It's not impacting you. Yeah, I'll never understand that behavior. Never understand it.
>> Speaker B:Exactly. In the same office, a lady went to, someone that was senior to her and started badmouthing this other girl, saying she's not doing a good job, which is your opinion, because if you just say that and don't give examples, or I guess the example she gave was not even this girl's responsibility or this lady's responsibility. but anyway, when asked, because they asked me what my opinion was or what they should do, I stated document. So, first of all, if someone in your organization or, some adjacent department is saying that you're not doing your job or how that crap goes, the first thing you should do if you feel insecure is have a meeting with your boss, because that's the person that should know what it is that you're doing. And you want to document the conversation. So you have the conversation, hey, just want your candid feedback. Is there anything that I am not doing or that's not up to par? And then whatever is discussed, you follow it up with an email, and then you send yourself that email. I mean, there's nothing wrong with that. But documentation is the best way to counteract potential slander, or what may be gossip at first, and then it turns into slander. It's always best if you document.
>> Speaker A:And by the way, not only is that sound advice, right? But we should maybe take a look at what people may not realize is slanderous, but is because somebody will think that if you say, well, it's just my opinion, I don't know for sure. And like, that's some kind of cop out. No, yeah, no, sorry. That's not how that works. See, I'll, remind everybody of the largest, defamation suit. And defamation, by the way, is slander. It's defamation. You're causing material harm to somebody. The largest defamation suit in this country was one with a judgment of 1.5 billion with the B dollars. And it wasn't in a workplace. Not precisely. It was in the case of Infowars with Alex Jones and defamation judgments for promoting a false claim that Sandy Hook elementary school shooting was a hoax. It wasn't a hoax. Children died. Those families suffered from that alone. And the continual focus on crisis actors and everything else and all the other crap that he was spewing from his mouth caused them, incredible harm. Some of them couldn't even live where they lived. They had to move because they were people actually giving them death threats, which makes no sense to me in any way. That's what happens when things spiral out of control and we've given a couple of personal examples where we were able to maintain control over it, but you never know what is that thing that just makes it spiral out of control? And then the target and the victim is really what I'm going to call them, is left with remnants of their life. And that's why this is such a dangerous behavior and extends outside of the office. You have to be careful when you're speaking, is what I'm saying. Potentially devastating to someone else?
>> Speaker B:Right.
>> Speaker A:And if the answer is even slightly, well, I mean, it wouldn't put them in a good light. My advice to you is free advice. Okay, free. Here we go. Free. Then don't say it, don't think it, don't whisper it, don't try to frame it. It's not worth it. And then take a step back and think to yourself, what am I trying to get for myself by sharing it? Because gossiping is a shared human behavior. It has some benefits. It has social benefits. You're interacting, you're talking about a common topic and whatever. Slander doesn't possess any of those qualities. So think about why you would need to share something that could even potentially hurt someone. And is it really necessary for you to do that? Because you're not excused from slander just because you didn't create it. So, in other words, you don't have to be the creator of the lie. So if you think of lie as artwork, right, it's bad art. It's horrible art, by the way, but let's pretend it's artwork, and you have that artwork, and then somebody says, wow, that's really nice artwork. I'd like to share that. And they make a copy of it. And eventually you get to a xerox copy of it. That doesn't mean you didn't share the artwork. You made cheaper copies of it so it could get around faster. You literally are a vehicle for the slander. You're not excused from it. And slanderous lawsuits are very hard to win. This one was hard to win, and it was out in your face. Right. The Alex Jones lawsuit was out in your face, and it was hard won. But in an organization, if a lawsuit occurs in an organization, those don't typically get to trial. There aren't many that are won, and there's a reason for that. And it's not because it's hard to prove slander. It's because if everyone documents and everything, you've got your receipts, right? It's because companies don't like to go to court. So guess what they do? They settle?
>> Speaker B:Yes.
>> Speaker A:Do you, as an employee of that organization, want to be the reason your organization had to pay out a significant settlement because of words that came out of your mouth, even if you weren't the one that originated the lie, even if all you did was repeat it, do you want to be that employee? Because I would not. Because the easiest way to make up for that loss is to cut headcount. And guess who I would, if it was my company, who I would cut first. The people that caused me to lose that much money because they wanted to be slanderous. that's Deadwood. Get it out of here. They don't belong to my organization anyway. Because when you're spreading that kind of slander, when you're creating that kind of negative narrative to hurt someone, you're not focused on your business. You're not focused on your work. You're not focused on making us a better company. You're not servicing our customers. You're not being innovative. You're creating no value for us. In fact, you're doing the absolute opposite of that. Why would I keep you here? And nobody thinks about it that far down. But that happens, right?
>> Speaker B:And it made me think of, when we talk about the human aspect of this, regardless of the job, you know, it, is always good to document, even in your personal life, if anything, to keep you straight, because, I got to say things like slander or half truths or things that are with malicious intent, like, you say it in your way, or in my opinion, this happened that could be in a church group or that could be around friends. And take it from me, I'll share something rather personal, but it's just to get the point across. When I was going through my divorce, my ex at the time was telling all of our friends that I was just in it for money. And like, all of my, quote unquote friends, or our mutual friends, for that matter, didn't come talk to me. They just took his word for it when I was the main contributor of all the money. So it wasn't that I was all about money. It was that he wanted to find a way to make everybody hate me. Of course, because, again, I put my foot down, and I'll tell you, it is painful when people decide to take somebody else's word for it and make you out to be this horrible person. Not to say that a person is blameless, but please, as a person going through it, please understand there will be a way out of it in the time, however long it takes. It does seem like it's hopeless a bit to like I'm losing all my friends. I'm losing all my reputation. you will come out of it, just understand the world is full of billions of people. Your small circle is just that, a small circle. You can and will see through all of that. You will get new friends, you'll get better friends, probably because you'll see that. What do I consider a friend? You might start questioning that, right. or how do I expose myself in the workplace or expose myself in the church to people that seem like they're nice and yet they're the first to jump off the bandwagon? You want people surrounding you that can see past a circumstance and really dig into character. And the only way you're going to do that is if you focus on your own character. You have to focus on becoming the person you want to be around. And I don't mean to make that into a lecture about these things, but there's a very human element to understanding that whatever situation you're in, revolving slander, you will have little control. You can document that is taking a little bit of control. And you can tell yourself, this too shall pass. And you don't have to defend yourself to people. You don't have to go out and say, no, that's not what happened. Oh, my God. Because that kind of seems silly in the moment for you to be doing that. you just have to find peace within and really focus on the choices that you make as far as what you are putting out there. because I want to bring it back to my story. I could have, I guess, spoken to people a little more. but I really spent a lot of time thinking about what I did. And I, to this day, do not think I did anything wrong. I think I was surrounded by people who just needed a story. Like, they just wanted to gossip. And, after I had left the job, they still talked about it and talked about it and talked about it. And, you know, I didn't try to defend myself. I just let it rest. And a lot of people eventually came back and said, hey, they reached out to me and wanted to talk with me. And distance makes the situation. You kind of reflect with distance. But all that to say, just hang in there. If you're in the middle of it, hang in there. Write out your truth, because writing is very powerful. and just know that it will pass. in the case of slander, as, Roberta alluded to, when there is a case, it is very hard. But we do encourage you, if it's in the workplace and it's blatant, and you have receipts. You should talk to somebody and you should make a case, especially if it's damaging your reputation.
>> Speaker A:Agreed.
>> Speaker B:At the end of the day, though, while it seems hopeless, hang on, because it will not be hopeless forever. it might impact your immediate circle, but you will move past it. And that's what I have seen firsthand, but I've also seen it with many other people. So just know we're in your corner. We're rooting for you.
>> Speaker A:Always rooting for you. and all of that is amazing and very sage advice. I think I'll tag the following to it. If you are suffering from slander, what Stella is talking about is important to keep yourself centered and keep your mental health intact, because it is crushing when it's happening to. Okay. It's crushing when it happens to you, and especially if it takes off and gets legs on its own. It's so hard. So what Stella is referring to is going to keep you sane, keep you centered, keep you focused. Shallow people reveal themselves, so take note of who they. Okay, take note of who they are. Find the ones that are in your corner without shame. Find the ones that support you and cling to those people. They might be a very small circle. It might just be your spouse, it might just be your best friend. It doesn't need to be more than that. Just people that you can rely upon that know you and don't believe anything else to help you get through it. I will tell you that if something is impacting your income, your position, not just at work, but outside of work, do seek counsel. Seek an attorney. have a conversation. Show him or her what you've documented, and get advice while defamation lawsuits don't. Again, there's not a lot of jury awards because most get settled outside of court. But those settlements can be thousands to millions of dollars, depending upon the level of loss. Emotional distress is taken into account. So seek counsel, because nobody should have the right to rob you of that right. So stay sane so that you can get out of it. Seek counsel so that you can hold people accountable for it. And then you also have to take a look. And this is the last thing I'll do on this topic. As somebody that has been slandered against more than just the one example I gave. I know, Stella. You've got other examples, too.
>> Speaker B:Yes.
>> Speaker A:Hm. You have to also get to a point, and it's not easy to do, and it may not happen for years, decades, even. You have to get to a point where you look at and you take assessment of your life and you realize who's in it and why they're in it and why you keep them there and why you don't have relationships anymore. That may have been enjoyable to you, but you no longer do. And when you take assessment of your life and you know the ones that have caused you pain, it's not like, you bring them back in, but you have to free yourself of the jail they put you in. And yes, the only way to do that effectively is to forgive them is to simply say, look, I have trouble with forgiveness. I'm just going to call myself out. Your girl can hold a grudge. I never forget.
>> Speaker B:But forgiveness is not forgetting.
>> Speaker A:No. And, I've also gotten better with how I forgive. Okay.
>> Speaker B:Yeah.
>> Speaker A:Feel free to write in if you guys have commentary here, because I am trying to be a better person. I'm not forgiving what they did to me. because I'm not forgiving them for the pain. I forgive them for not knowing better, and I pray they know better now. I forgive them for not being aware of the few words that they say in a hurry to pass along a lie, how that would have spiraled out of control and have direct impact on my life. And I forgive them for not being better stewards of their mouths. I forgive them for spreading something painful or even intentionally causing me pain because they did not have the strength of character or the backbone to do the right thing. That's what I'm forgiving. Because when I forgive that way, I can free myself of the jail they put me in. And it doesn't absolve them of what they did, because they have to own up to that. They have to own up to what they did. If it's not with me or with the court, depending on your faith system, they're going to own up to it. And in my faith system, there is an ultimate judge, and they'll have to still atone for what they did. I'm not freeing them of, what happened. I am forgiving them because I recognize that they did not have the wherewithal, the peace within themselves, the security of their own character, or any character at all to not harm somebody else in order to feel relevant. I don't need to harm somebody to feel important. I don't need to cause somebody shame to feel like I'm above justice. I don't view equality as a threat to my existence. I don't need to be above somebody to feel safe. I am secure enough in my person, my experience, my talents, my faith, and who I am as a person. I don't need to be who they are to cause harm to somebody. So I forgive them because I recognize that they have deficits as humans that they need to work through, and perhaps they'll get there where they recognize that themselves. And I hope they become better people, because, again, even the worst people in your life, and we've talked about them, the boss holes, the narcissists, even the worst people have a circle within their lives that do depend on them. And the shrapnel from blowing that person up affects those people. And I don't want to ever be that person. So forgiveness is a real thing. And when you forgive somebody because you recognize that they have deficits within themselves that cause them to cause you that pain, it doesn't absolve them of what they did, but you forgive them because it's almost like they didn't know any better because they don't have it in them to be better, at least not at that moment where they were hurting you.
>> Speaker B:Yes.
>> Speaker A:So, forgive. And, like, for those that listen to this podcast that know what Stella and I have been through directly at previous employers, and, you know some of the things that we've talked about in this podcast, and, you know the people we're talking about. Yeah. And maybe you are some of those people. I've forgiven what has happened to me by your hand. I, ah, have absolutely.
>> Speaker B:I'm so glad you're.
>> Speaker A:I do not wish you, ill will, if you prosper, fantastic for you. I wish you nothing but the best. I have forgiven you because I recognize you are not the human that I was and am at the time that our lives intersected. And so the reason you chose to harm me, the reason you chose to harm Stella, the reason you chose to harm others, is because of a deficit within you that, we can't fix, and only you or the Lord can, in my faith. So you have to take care of that. But I forgive you directly for what harm you've done to me because you have no sway over my life anymore. And the lies you told don't have any sway over my life anymore. And that's something that is hard, by the way, to get to that point. And again, your girl can hold a grudge. Trust me, I can hold a grudge. It is hard to get to this point for me personally, but it's also one of the most freeing things, because when you can finally say those things and mean it, it's not like I'm going to see those people and run up and give them a hug. We're not there.
>> Speaker B:Right?
>> Speaker A:Yeah, but they don't rent any space in my head or in my heart or in my soul. And if I rent a mansion size space in their head, that's because of them. I don't want to live there. So, getting out of that jail that they put you in empowers you in ways you don't understand until you do it. That's what I'll close you guys.
>> Speaker B:Absolutely. That's beautiful. That's a beautiful way to close Stella. that's called grace. Sometimes it's the grace to understand that they're just not at the place to have the character to not inflict. Yeah, absolutely.
>> Speaker A:You don't have to forget what they did because you can get lessons from it for yourself and from others, which is why this podcast exists. But, forgiveness is not about freeing them. It frees you. That's what it's about. So forgive them. Forgive them because they don't know how to be better. Forgive them because they. We're not starting the toxic church because that just sounds wrong on so many levels. We are, by the way, thinking about having a, religion centered episode at some point. We're toying with it. We're toying with it. We're toying with it. So we'll get back to you on that, because there is toxicity in religion, and we'll get back to you on that. We're still toying with it, but we want to thank everybody again for having patience with us while we sorted things out. We hope you get excited about our expansion on these topics. we've got some great things coming up, and we can't wait to share them with you. We're so excited to be back. We're so excited to continue to provide you with some sage advice, some camaraderie, and hopefully some laughter. I know we weren't really that funny this episode, but hang with us. Twins are still creepy. I stand by. Sorry, not sorry.
>> Speaker B:So make sure to follow us on, you know, all the Facebook platforms, stuff like, what are they stuff.
>> Speaker A:Follow us on TikTok until they ban it. Follow us on all that stuff. Yeah, follow us. And by the way, we didn't do any sponsorship plugs, other than for my book. Remember, emerge is coming out soon. Emerge. But that is intentional. We just wanted to have this kind of be a little fireside chat between Stella and I and you guys to kind of do a reset we didn't want to have that impacted by any sponsorship or any other things. We just wanted to kind of let you know our new direction. Our huge announcement is that we're here. Our huge announcement is that we are going to dig even deeper. It's going to be even more entertaining. And buckle up and get ready because we got to get raw to get the details out. So stay tuned. We love you. You all.
>> Speaker B:Love you.
>> Speaker A:Bye. Go visit our blog at www. Dot toxic room.
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