Toxic Tearoom
The tea is piping hot! Get ready to clutch your pearls! This is the podcast where you can bring your break room whispers to the world!
This is a safe space to share stories of bossholes and bitchiness, of toxicity and drama, all while understanding the underlying issues that feed these toxic environments. You will laugh. You will relate. You will understand- and you will survive. You are not alone!
Your hosts are two dynamic executives who take the issues seriously- but not themselves. Join them and a variety of top-tier guests as we discuss the brutality of these issues in an honest, raw, funny, and inclusive way.
Send your stories to
TheTeabag@ToxicTearoom.com. We promise to protect the innocent and will purposefully keep all stories anonymous.
Toxic Tearoom
I'm not projecting. You're projecting!
Projections- gaslighting in 3D- are both aggressive and defensive mechanisms that we find equally fascinating and frustrating. In the office, these projections can create a narrative that alters how others perceive you. In your personal life, these projections create dysfunctional- even abusive- relationships.
Your hosts discuss examples of projections at work, home, and even a police officer in a convenience store. Listen to how to identify projections, deflect those projections back, regain sanity, and work on restoring a productive relationship.
The Four Agreements - highly recommended by Stella!
Projections- A Story of Human Emotions- FREE with an Audible trial!
Some Projections You Can Really Use
HireMyMom.com - Use TOXICTEAROOM at checkout for 15% off job listings!
Escatena - Unleash uncommon results with Escatena!
Relax LEGALLY with Canna River (except Idaho. Too bad for Idaho.)
Therapy Notebooks- Document your feelings, practice your projections, whatever. :)
Send us your horror stories, your most memorable projections, and other tips, tricks, and topics! We love to hear from you! theteabag@toxictearoom.com
Thanks for listening to Toxic Tearoom! Follow us on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, X and Patreon. Are you in a toxic workplace? Tell us about it at TheTeabag@ToxicTearoom.com. We promise anonymity, empathy, and a healthy dose of humor.
The Toxic Tearoom podcast is for entertainment purposes only, even though you may project a response to it. Neither the Toxic tea room nor its parent, that one, Booth Productions, LLC, is responsible for the statements or opinions of its guests, omissions or content derived from publicly available sources. Content should not be interpreted as targeting specific companies, organizations, or individuals, even though you may use it as a deflection. The Toxic Tearoom podcast and that one, Booth Productions, LLC, are not responsible for any actions taken by individuals as a result of any content produced on this podcast. Listeners are encouraged to vet any recommendations with certified professional personnel. For more info on our disclaimer and to read our blog, visit our website at www. Dot toxictea room.com. I'm Stella.
>> Speaker B:And I'm Roberta. Welcome to the Toxic Tea Room.
>> Speaker A:So, Roberta, I'm actually excited to be talking about projections, which I know might sound weird, but, man, have I recognized this in a lot of people. First, I'll start out by defining it. Projection is the process of displacing one's feelings onto a different person, animal or object. No, I don't know how the object works.
>> Speaker B:How do you do the object?
>> Speaker A:Okay.
>> Speaker B:Okay.
>> Speaker A:Not judging it is a defense mechanism in which unwanted feelings are displaced onto another person, where they then appear as a threat from the external world to that person. So, firstly, we have to recognize that it's a defense. Meaning someone might not even know that they're doing it, especially when they are out of touch with their own feelings.
>> Speaker B:Yes, I can absolutely see that.
>> Speaker A:So let's.
>> Speaker B:Let's talk about a few examples. a common projection is when someone feels threatened by what someone else is speaking of or about. So they start accusing the person of harboring hostile thoughts. Or let's say a guy thinks his lady coworker is attractive, but then accuses her of flirting with him. Ooh. Imagine being the woman in that scenario. I know when he's like, you're flirting with me. She's like, I met the copier. What?
>> Speaker A:Yeah.
>> Speaker B:What? Yeah, you gotta quit flirting with me. Noted. like, just getting my copies.
>> Speaker A:It happened to me once, actually. I was 19. Well, no, no, I was not 19. I was 17.
>> Speaker B:Wow.
>> Speaker A:And I got a temp job over the summer at Kaiser Permanente, which is a medical place.
>> Speaker B:Ah.
>> Speaker A:Place in Cali. And, this. I was 17. This 30 year old guy, which to me, at the time, dude, that was old.
>> Speaker B:Yeah, that was like 80. Same difference.
>> Speaker A:I was like, you're old. Anyway, he was like, he offered to drive me home because I would walk home. And because let's not talk about me getting a car. That's another topic for another day. But anyway. And so I said, yeah, sure. Cause he had offered many times, and I always said no, but it was literally, like, a few blocks away. So I'm like, yeah, sure. And then as he dropped me off, he put his hand on my leg, and I'm like, what are you doing? And he's like, you know that you're always flirting with me? And I'm like, no.
>> Speaker B:Ew.
>> Speaker A:Actually, I'm not. And he's like, well, come on, you know you're attracted to me.
>> Speaker B:And I'm like, that's disgusting.
>> Speaker A:No, actually, I'm not. And I'm getting out of the car now. Thanks.
>> Speaker B:That's.
>> Speaker A:It was creepy.
>> Speaker B:I also have an example.
>> Speaker A:Yeah.
>> Speaker B:So I wasn't quite that young, but I think I was, like, 18. And I was working at a white hen pantry. I don't know if you guys had those in Cali. but in Chicago, those were, like, they were bought eventually by 711. They were just convenience stores. And I had one about a block from my house. And so I worked the overnight shift because that allowed me to make some money while I was studying. So, cops came in all the time, because we offered cops free coffee, because that would mean they'd come all the time. And because those stores are open 24/7 they tend to be targeted for robberies and things like that. So we wanted to attract police officers in. And there was one officer in particular, big, burly dude, but he was always nice, he was always friendly. And he would joke around with me, or with us if I had another person working at a shift change. And they'd be there for a little bit, because usually I was by myself. and he said something. I don't even remember the context of the situation, but he said something about partying or something, or, hey, how do you go partying after work if it's off early? And I said, I don't party. I go home exhausted after a shift. and he said, I bet I could get you to come party. And I said, you couldn't pay me to party with you. And his face changed, and he said, are you soliciting me?
>> Speaker A:Yeah.
>> Speaker B:and I looked at him, and I said, are you entrapping me? Which ended that I was just like, what? Like, are you just bored? You just don't have an arrest to meet your quota for the rest. What is going on? Cause, like, it just, But it was weird. But I took that as kind of a projection. Like, I mean, when I said you couldn't pay me to party with you, that is not an offer, dude, for you to pay. When I literally started with, you could not pay me to party with you. What? I don't understand. It was the weirdest thing. I was just like, God, that's gross. That's so gross.
>> Speaker A:It is a. Yeah, give. Give me the money up front.
>> Speaker B:Yeah, they need to arrest you. Haha. You are soliciting. Ha ha ha.
>> Speaker A:But I'm not going to the party anyway.
>> Speaker B:Yeah, just give me the money. I'm not going to the party. And we're done here. Leave no free coffee for you. I was impressed that I could say entrapment. I mean, like, look, I was studying. I'm like, you're trying to entrap me. And by the way, if you ever want a police officer who's acting weird and awkward to stop doing that, immediately say the words. Say the word entrapment. Don't use it casually. Yeah, like, if they come up and say, hey, how you doing today? Entrapment. That's not. That's not the. I am not advising you to do that. Don't do that. I did see a, I did see, a TikTok or YouTube, I don't remember which, where somebody said the magical words to make police officers walk away. And I'm like, I'm intrigued. Cause I don't run into the law very much, but I'm always intrigued by people who think they have the magic answer. Like those quote unquote sovereign citizens who claim they don't have to abide by laws or pay taxes. And somebody convinced them that that's real. and of course they do. Of course they have to pay bills. Of course they have to do those things. So I watched the video, and the video actually was impressive because all of these people, as police officers were coming up to their cars, their vehicles, and they would ask them, like, hey, how you doing today? Driver would say, I'm great. He's like, so are you pulled over because you're acquainted with the person that we pulled over ahead of you? The guy said, I'm not answering any questions. Police officer said, all right, hi. And they show this in different scenarios. Like, you know, even people walking up like, hey, do you, what brings you here? I don't answer questions. You don't answer any questions? Not answering questions. Why aren't you answering any questions? I don't answer questions. All right, have a good day. And the advice. And it was actually sponsored by an attorney who said, don't, talk to police officers. And I'm always. I feel bad in those situations because I feel like I'm supposed to, but then I see these things. I'm like, how effective is it if they walk away? See, that's the part that made me think about it. I know we're gonna get back on track, I promise. But we are talking about projections.
>> Speaker A:Yes.
>> Speaker B:What made me look into that and go, wow. Cause I always look at the motives behind it.
>> Speaker A:Right?
>> Speaker B:See, I grew up, police officers were there to help, and they helped keep peace and all of those things. And I haven't had run ins with the law. Save the creepy police officer drinking coffee and accusing me of solicitation, for telling him I would not. You couldn't pay me enough to party with you. You're so gross. But I haven't had interactions like this. But when somebody is pulled over and literally, they say, I don't answer questions. And the police officer didn't open with in a hurry, which would tell me, speeding, right? If you're speeding, you're speeding. You can't say, I don't answer questions. you don't have to answer a question. I got a radar, and I clocked you doing x. But it wasn't like that. They were just, you know, even walking, asking them questions like, you have any idea on you. I don't answer questions. And the cops stop and they tell them, have a good day. It makes you wonder, okay, then why are you. Why are you trying to get information out of them? Are you trying to get, like, something going? Because why would you just walk away with those easy words? I don't answer questions. And people, the cops are like, have a good day. I don't get that at all. Like, I watched it work, and so it blows my mind because I think about those things sometimes and say, I mean, like, is that legit? Is that real? Maybe there are some police officers that listen to this podcast, and they can kind of. Look, you can tell us anonymously, we're not going to call you out. We're not going to say sergeant blew the whistle at, you know, San Diego police department or whatever. We're not going to say that. If you want to let us know if that's a thing. Like, you try to have conversation with people hoping they'll trip up and screw up or something. Like, just let us know if that's a real thing, because these videos are pretty impressive, and it was an attorney's firm that put it out. So I'm just saying. I'm not answering any questions, either. Don't ask me a question, and don't ask me a question in writing. The teabag@toxicteroom.com. Because I'll just respond with I don't answer questions. See if that works in everyday life. Imagine trying that at the office.
>> Speaker A:Yeah.
>> Speaker B:Hey, so, how's that project going? Yeah, I don't answer questions. Beg your pardon? I'm just not asking you just that. Yeah, I just don't answer questions. They'll just. Okay. I need to. I need to know this answer, though.
>> Speaker A:I don't answer when I feel like telling you I will, but until I.
>> Speaker B:Feel like telling, I, don't answer questions.
>> Speaker A:So. Yeah.
>> Speaker B:Anywho, so back on track.
>> Speaker A:So I definitely have witnessed a lot of projections. it is definitely something that can create so much toxicity, not only in the workplace, but I'd say especially in close relationships, where that significant other totally takes the conversation into an accusatory manipulation. I see it. Like, even in, like, reality dating shows, I don't know why. Look, I don't watch reality tv except for love is blind for some reason. I watched that show.
>> Speaker B:So random, and I know it is.
>> Speaker A:Random, and I do think. I do think it's, you know, kind of ridiculous, to say the least, but, there's just something about changing up the order in which people connect and making it, you know, connect on what you're saying, because to me, even what they're saying, they're blinded by reality. So there's something deeply philosophical that attracts my attention. But anyway. But what I'm saying is when they finally meet in this show and stuff, if they had preconceived notions of the person or what they expected, they start accusing the other person before they know. and it's probably because they're so rushed into the relationship, and they have to figure out if they're going to get married within a month. I don't know. But, yeah, it's just. It's definitely something that is very prevailing in close relationships to project. and it comes from wanting to defend yourself when you don't actually know that you're doing it sometimes. And if you're the person that's saying, hey, honey, I have this issue. What ends up happening for the person that projects is they insinuate, oh, because you're bringing this up. You're calling me a failure, and nothing I'm ever doing is enough, or you know, however, the internal loop goes, from that person, and then what comes out is, well, you're never happy with Xyz. And that, to me, is a projection of the fear of not wanting to accept that they, you think that the other person is calling you a failure, for example, in this elaborate example. So what do you think of all of that?
>> Speaker B:I mean, I definitely agree that it happens. you know, I'll give you, I'll give you another example. When you have a spouse who, and it tends to, unfortunately, be in abusive relationships, whether it's physically abusive, verbal abuse, or both, where the insecure spouse will accuse the other of cheating constantly. And in reality, if it's not based solely in insecurity, it's often projection because they're out doing it. And so because they're doing it, they're projecting that onto the other spouse. And you're cheating on me. You're always cheating on me. You're always looking at other people. You're always doing this. And they want to have some control. They want to look at the phone, they want to look at the emails, as if to look for any little scrap to prove them correct. But they know they're the ones that are being dirty, you know? Or as. What did Sam Smith say? Couldn't keep their business clean.
>> Speaker A:Yeah.
>> Speaker B:What is that song? Mama don't something mama don't know. It was big. It was huge. And now I can't even think of the lyrics. But I do remember that one, keep your business clean. Cause that's how he sings it. And basically it songs about him going out and being dirty, being nasty, being dirty, doing the deed with others. but I agree. I mean, I think even outside of romantic relationships, you see it in parent child relationships, you see it in friend relationships. Projection is a real thing. And you have to be comfortable enough to call someone out on that projection when, like, you know that that's not happening. Like, if you have a friend who wants to borrow money, for example, and you're like, I wish I could help you out, I just don't have it. Oh, you know you have it. You just don't want to lend it to me because you think I'm gonna go gamble it away at the casino, right? I think, you know you're gonna gamble it away at a casino. Cause that didn't even occur to me. I literally, I'm tapped out this month. I don't have it to give to you. I think you called yourself out. In fact, even calling yourself out, it's kind of a way of projecting, is it not? I mean, I think it's an interesting psychological trigger that I think we all do to some degree or another.
>> Speaker A:Exactly.
>> Speaker B:Some people are masterful at it, and that's just, I think, their defense mechanism. To your point, I think they just want to deflect away from themselves. And project what they're doing onto somebody or something else. Because it allows them, I think, at some level, to feel better about what they're doing. As if it's almost like a form of disassociation, isn't it?
>> Speaker A:Yes.
>> Speaker B:Where if I can, project this onto somebody else, it's no longer a behavior associated with me. It's a behavior that is associated with you. Even though I'm the one doing it, I am making it your behavior. Therefore I can make it okay with myself. It's really interesting. Quite a rabbit hole to me.
>> Speaker A:yeah, to me, I think it's so interesting that a projection, and I can't say this definitively because I haven't thought it all the way through, but it seems to me that a projection is always a deflection. So if we, you know, that, I don't think a deflection always has to be a projection, though. Because, for example, I had a really. These really close friends, back in my early twenties. And every time I would ask them a question, like, something deep, like, so what do you feel about that? They would say, well, I don't know, but listen, how are you doing? Like, they would always flip to want me to talk.
>> Speaker B:Yeah.
>> Speaker A:Because they were uncomfortable with sharing. And at first I was like, oh, you know, ah, being younger and more naive, I guess I just went with the flow. But I started. I took a step back and said, I'm the only one really sharing in the relationship. There's obviously a, boundary there, which. But it was. It was kind of back then, like this huge thing for me. Because I didn't be it, naive, be it, whatever. I was a very open and honest person. So for someone calling themselves a best friend, to never get personal and always deflect it, it kind of, you know, shook me up a little. Because I'm like, yeah, wait. Not everybody is open and transparent. Some people want to hear about you, but they're going to totally block you, like, to know about themselves. So I don't know.
>> Speaker B:It's not reciprocated.
>> Speaker A:Yeah, in some situations. And I had a very uncommon, upbringing because I moved and moved and moved a lot. and not for military reasons, but, it was very unconventional, so little things like this. And because I moved around so much, picking up on people's behaviors was definitely something I, it was definitely something I didn't really know about. So, yeah, it was just a very unconventional way to be raised. And I didn't, I wasn't taught from being in consistent relationships that people, in other words, they're manipulating the relationship when they constantly deflect. because they're not letting people get. And believe me, I 1000% believe in boundaries. and people should set boundaries. It's the deflection that I'm. That we're talking about, the deflection and the projection.
>> Speaker B:So, anyway, yeah, I mean, in the workplace, that gets hard, too, because, if someone is projecting on you, particularly if they're trying to project their failure onto you, and if they do that in a public setting, as some boss holes tend to do, it creates a narrative that is hard to fight after a while, because the person that is doing the projecting is making it clearly known that the issue is your issue.
>> Speaker A:Yeah.
>> Speaker B:That, you know, the conversation needs to be about you versus them.
>> Speaker A:Yeah. So it definitely does happen in the workplace. But do you, did you know what isn't a projection, not even on a movie screen.
>> Speaker B:Tell me.
>> Speaker A:Getting uncommon results. ESca Tena has a proven record of fast tracking results to the bottom line in sustainability, supply chain business management, fractional services, and much more. Visit Esca tennatoday escatena.net for your free consultation.
>> Speaker B:So what should someone be doing to either recognize projections that they themselves are doing or that someone else does to them? Yeah, what do you think people should do? I have called out people for projecting a couple of times. Not every time. Yeah, but a couple of times I have. And it's interesting because it doesn't go the way you think. Like, if you think that someone will go, you're right. I think I am projecting. It's not how it goes. It's usually complete and total denial. And then the gaslighting starts right where it's like, no, you're crazy. You're making things up. It doesn't go well. So how does one not only identify, but address? I guess, is there anything we could provide the listening audience to give them some help here?
>> Speaker A:Okay, so I do think there's several things.
>> Speaker B:Okay.
>> Speaker A:first, I'm gonna personally recommend, reading this great little book called the four agreements. And I'll tell you what the four agreements are. Number one, be impeccable with your words. So you want to watch what is coming out of your pie hole? Don't. Number two is, oh, my God, don't take anything personally. Number three, don't make assumptions. And number four out of the four agreements is to always do your best. I, think that the reason I recommend the book is because it does fully expound on the principles of the weight of someone's words. First of all, because be impeccable with your word means you're not even saying crap to yourself. So having that self discipline in your own vernacular and what you're saying and what you're concentrating your energy on is, it's a huge deal. But then the second and third agreements, which is don't take anything personally, and don't make assumptions that if you look internally, you will at least recognize things that you're doing, but you will also recognize what someone else has the potential to do, which is a projection or a manipulation or a deflection, those sorts of things. But if you don't recognize them, in your soul first or you recognize that you do let loose with your mouth sometimes. If you're not self aware that way, then it will be extremely hard to notice it in somebody else. That's just my personal take on it. So I think in that personal recognition, you learn discernment, and discernment will help you, even if you don't know exactly how to deal with it. At least you will create space to understand that people do these things, and sometimes they don't even recognize that they're doing it. So, hopefully that kind of makes sense.
>> Speaker B:it does. Can I ask a favor?
>> Speaker A:Yeah.
>> Speaker B:Can you say the phrase let loose with your mouth one more time, but slowly, as if we were in a darkened room, there's been some wine. Just let loose with your mouth. I'm so sorry. Remember, we said we take issue seriously? We don't take ourselves seriously. You can't make a statement like let loose with your mouth and not think, I'm going to be all over that. Stella.
>> Speaker A:Oh, there it is.
>> Speaker B:There it is. So I'm going to let loose with my mouth here real quick. when you're in tune with yourself, first and foremost, you can be receptive to what serves you and what doesn't, which is a lesson that we have said repeatedly on this podcast, especially when we're focusing on the work environment. If we all need a paycheck, we get it. And it's difficult sometimes to leave an abusive employer or even just a situation when you are dependent upon something from that situation. Right. So an employer would be your paycheck. A personal relationship is, you know, it might be you have some emotions or feelings, maybe there's kids involved, if it's a spousal situation. So, we understand all of that, but we've always said you have to take assessment of your life and take stock of what serves you and what doesn't. Even if it used to serve you, it may not serve you any longer or is now detrimental for you. But when you make that introspective and know, what about my thought processes? What about my. The way I process information? Is there something there that is serving me?
>> Speaker A:Yeah.
>> Speaker B:Great. If there's stuff that isn't serving you, negative stuff. you know, self defeating thoughts. You know that mantra that plays in your head? Imposter syndrome. You've gotta look at those things and flush those out of your brain. Literally think of your brain as a toilet bowl. And you gotta scrub it once in a while because otherwise the shit stains. Okay, I said it. It is what it is. Your brain is. And look, it's not that far from that. We absorb information all day. We read it, we hear it, we view it. If you don't clean that toilet bowl of your brain once in a while, it's stained and it's not from a good place. but once you organize your thoughts and you've done that process, which is not an overnight, it's not a 15 minutes exercise, it's a conscious effort to organize your thoughts. Even if you have to write a list of facts about what happened in a particular situation, it can help you bring more evidence as to why you are feeling a certain way or why the other person might be. Emphasis on might. because the other thing that you don't want to do is project your views onto your perception of the other person in the situation. Because that's really what we're trying to solve here. Right?
>> Speaker A:Yep.
>> Speaker B:And I have tightened up the looseness of the mouth. Now it's your turn.
>> Speaker A:So all I want to say here is, if projection is being done to you, you might say, well, I don't need to be introspective. I don't need to start with myself first. But it is very important to understand that we are all capable, to some degree or another, of projecting or deflecting or manipulating a conversation to go the way that you want it to go. So in saying that it's always best to start with yourself. Take a self inventory, because they. It might be that the other person isn't projecting, they're calling something out. And as you alluded to previously, Roberta, some people don't take that very well. They wouldn't take it well because it's either a blind spot that they've never thought of before, or it's too painful to see the truth, because usually there's an attached belief around that, that accusatory thing. So, for example, if someone said, oh, you effed up this report, you're. Every time I give you something, I should just do it myself, because this is what I expected from you. that might seem like a projection of the other person's failure, but there might be some truth that you think you're stupid, and therefore you put in less than optimal work because you're already anticipating that the work's going to be bad. Something along those lines. There's always a few layers of introspection that you should do.
>> Speaker B:Hopefully, Stella, all that introspective self assessment, as you alluded to, doesn't create that voice in your head that you're attributing to the boss hole that talked to that person the way you started that example. It's like, you flippin idiot. You incompetent fool. I could have just done this myself. Hopefully. That is not. I don't want that voice in someone's head as their internal voice, nor do I want that being said to them. that's a whole nother level of toxicity that is. That is even beyond projection. That's just a boss hole. That's just. And one of our. To quote Catherine, one of our former guests, don't be a dick. That's a minute. And don't be one to yourself, either, guys. Treat yourself well. Deep stuff.
>> Speaker A:Yes, it is. So, speaking of being perceptive and astute, you should consider the fine team at hired my mom. Hire my mom has been a matchmaker since the nineties, helping top tier candidates get great roles at vetted, non toxic, top tier companies. If you want to add the right talent, the ones that don't project, visit hiremymom.com, use code toxicte room. That's all caps. Toxictearoomm at checkout for 15% off job.
>> Speaker B:Listings, and get that job you want. I'm not projecting on you to get the job. I'm just saying get the job you want. so if our listeners want to know what it's like to have casual conversations with Stella, this episode told you a lot. Because Stella's very much the philosophical part, of the duo, and it's fascinating to talk with her on topics because she provides incredible perspectives. I didn't realize I needed to put on my scuba suit today to handle this deep of a topic, but nevertheless, I'm glad I did. Nevertheless, I'm glad I did. if you think about how often projections occur in our business lives, in our professional lives, rather our personal lives, it happens quite a bit. And so I do think it's important to recognize that it is a toxic behavior.
>> Speaker A:Yes, I totally agree. recognizing it is absolutely key. So we would love to hear from you on different ways projections have manifested in your lives. Share with us. Keep sending those stories to theteabagtoxicte room.com.
>> Speaker B:Please subscribe and follow us on LinkedIn, x, Instagram, and TikTok for as long as we have TikTok. You can also support us by supporting our various affiliates. Look on our blog for additional information. We have a new affiliate that can help you chill out legally.
>> Speaker A:Yeah. We will share this episode and resources in the show notes and on our blog at, toxicteroom.com blog.
>> Speaker B:Stay with us, folks. Bye.
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